Ye Gods, Did it actually work? Unbelievable. But I see I hadn't repaired the front coupler yet. Even the "Z" is gross,but I needed it for what I intended to do. JR.
Keep the four wheel lead truck and add one more set of drivers and you have the EL Goobernador. I wonder if anyone has ever attempted to model it.
Nah,about the only thing "west of the river" that interests me is the D&RG. With 4 worms and a lot of lead,this thing really pulls though. What I could use are some 1890's Brooks 4-8-0's...
Instead of wiring another tender up, use another piece of rolling stock and hook the contacts up there. I used the axle set up out of an old passenger(had lights in it) car and put it in an smaller box car to extended my pick up range on my small single axle switcher that hate frogs. I just unplug it when I don't need it and pull the wires back up thru the door of the box car when not in use.
The purpose of the auxillary tender was and is to stay permanently connected and in that regard I already had the extra tenders with the electrical components and trucks. The only extra work involved was to fit a new top and weight to replace the removed motor and attach wires to already existing contacts. The only weak link in the chain turned out to be the deteriorated trucks on both the locos and the auxillary tenders hindering the tractive effort severely. The electrical pick-up works like a champ and in fact better than anything I could fabricate and with less trouble. With the new factory made trucks arriving in about two weeks and cheaper per truck than anything I could come up with that problem will be solved. Also the operation stays prototype. A lot of steam had to stop 2 to 3 times for water before the fuel needed replenishment. The use of the auxillary tenders on long runs saved time and sped up the operations. As to using behind a small diesel to me the ready availability and cheapness of a new style Bmann tender is the way to go. All the pick-up trucks are there with the electrical contacts installed and one just needs to attach wires between the two and replace the drawbar with a coupler. Next add a boxcar shell and you are done.
The project is still on hold awaiting delivery of the new tender trucks. The venders I have dealt with in the past have been fairly good about sending update E-mails about the status of an order especially the all important tracking number when shipping. So this Thursday I got a rather strange one from Bachmann. It simply stated that my order status had been upgraded to Picking/Packing. Somehow this created a vision of someone on a stepladder out behind the building picking parts off the tree and then packing them in a wooden fruit crate. In contrast the other order I have through another vender simply comfirmed receipt of my order and the a final E-mail stating shipping with a tracking number that allows me to know the order will be here on the 25th. Hmm strange things going on at the Bmanns shop.
Crowded workbench this afternoon. With the new tender trucks from Bmann having been shipped now I'm back working on my 4-4-0s. Also the new tender for the MP 4-4-0 now 4-4-2 arrived a day earlier than expected and it has received its oil bunk and a few detail parts and now waiting for paint to dry. Decided to fit a coupler to one of the Bmann 4-4-0s but as usual for me when trying to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, crap happens. While carving for the coupler pocket the pilot broke. So into the parts box, Nn3 this time, for a metal cast pilot from RLW. Drilled it out to accept the fabricated coupler pocket made from square brass tube. Mounted both and from another box took a coupler that will mate with MTs, trimmed the shaft, and mounted that into the couple box now on the pilot. Checked the alignment with the coupler gauge and it is right on. This is basically the same procedure I will use with the Atlas pilots, although hopefully I won't break one of them. Play with the old Bmanns first and get what I want refined down then the Atlas. Also replaced the pilot truck wheels with a set of NWSL 28 inch insulated wheels. They are a bit larger than the stock wheels but clear and work fine. Next on the bench is a scrapped 4-4-0 chassis that has been stripped. I am carefully drilling out from rear to front wheel well for a small brass wire that will protrude slightly at the rear of the cab deck. There are already openings at that location on both sides. The wheels only have the outer rim that are metal so the wire goes along the top of the wheel wells and flush with the back surface. Once done and secured in place I slip the wheels back in set it on a powered track section, and take a small 12 volt bulb with leads attached to see if I get current. If sucessful the loco will get completely restored and hooked to a tender with new trucks and wires routed to the tender pick-up strips. If not then back into the parts box. Nothing lost but some time and a few inches of brass wire.
Well a brief Update on the project. Received the new tender wheelsets on Monday and finally got around to installing them. Quality control is still an issue though in that two of them had enough flash to interfere with the trucks ability to swivel. Of the original six I started with 4 remain and out of those three are running fairly decent the 4th, one of my conversions has a worm gear that is squalling like my cat when I run over its tail with my chair. Some oil seems to have quieted it slightly so a worm gear replacement may be instore. The remaining four still do not have the tractive effort I used to have but I noticed setting weight on the loco improved things 100%. So I think the traction tires are probably shot and rather than try and replace them I'm going to try and find a Bullfrog with a cold and squeeze its little head over the wheels. Working on these has been almost akin to the proverbial pigs ear into silk purse thing and why I take on these projects is beginning to have me question my sanity. However provided I do solve my traction issue then the auxillary tenders have new trucks and are ready to go on at least the 4-6-0 kit bashes. I took the shell from the previous post and tried my luck at installing wipers with mixed results. Part of the issue is that I don't have the equipment to precision drill where I need. The other is that if the wheels were solid metal backed results would have been better on the pick-up. However it did work to a point but not as I would like and performance would have suffered.
Excellent ideas here. I have a mix of old and new 4-4-0s. On the left, the newer tender trucks. The "axles" are permanently attached to the truck frames, and sometimes not quite straight (can cause the wheels to rub the frames). On the right are the older ones; the "axles" are separate. And much harder to work with. The truck frames are slightly larger on the new ones. To keep the springs from flying away I used some wire glue to hold them in place. I also put some Neolube on the axles. (If ever there was a need for after-market parts, this is it.)
I hope some steam guru can get us new frame, cab, tender castings out of metal that can improve one of these locos. I've got five B'man and one Atlas and I would love to have one that actually runs well! does anyone make a wood load for the tender of a 4-4-0 ?
The Atlas run pretty good just right now it is sort of hit and miss on the QC and they have some decent weight for thier size with the metal boilers. The Bmann locos run pretty good out of the box but as I've pointed out in this thread they do suffer some deterioration after time mainly with the tenders of the older stuff. Electrical pick-up from the small wheel footprint is thier big issue. They have decent weight with that big lump of metal in the engine subframe and on the extended smokebox versions one can tuck a bit of Tungsten putty in there and I may try using Tungsten in place of the cab weight. As far as wood loads for the tenders take the time for a walk in the backyard or the park with your trusty pocket knife. Collect some small diameter twigs and then split with a single edge razor blade. Cut to about three scale feet in length and you have your wood load. Since the Bmann tenders also tend to suffer from a weight issue a small bit of Tungsten putty on the tender top in about the middle, and pile the wood on top. Real wood load plus extra weight on the tender for pick-up, plus the extra weight tends to damp the torque that the motor causes. Somthing I have not seen on the Atlas versions due to the way the tender wheels are mounted.
The saga with the Bmann 4-4-0 continues on but is rapidly approaching a closure. After replacing the tender trucks with newly ordered ones of dubious quality and removing the cab weight on one ,drilling it out, and filling the holes with some Tungsten to increase weight, and then applying Bullfrog Snot to the drivers on all I can say that two more have been permanently retired to never grace the rails again. That leaves the two kitbashed 4-6-0s which showed some improvement after all the work. They were able to drag two of my heaviest cars plus a Bmann conventional tender, which is as heavy as the entire loco, on level relatively well. Forget any grade though. I found little improvement with the new trucks they being of just as low quality as the previous editions. Trying to apply Bullfrog Snot to the drivers is difficult at best if the old traction tires are left on. Mainly because of the close tolerances of the doggone wheel fenders. So the traction tires ended up being completely removed on all and the fenders on one also. Two of them had the pilot wheels and axles replaced with NWSL wheels and axles. It took two applications of the Bullfrog in order to build up the grove left from the traction tire. However with all that they still had poor performance in reverse. The minute I applied some extra weights on the loco the performance picked right up both forward and backwards. The deterioration in performance that these locos have undergone in a few years is amazing to put it mildly. I have no plans to permanently glue a spare tender, motor, weight and all to the cab roof to get the performance back. I also observed some wear on the metal piece that holds the wheels in place and also forms the drawbar. So there is possibly wear in the plastic wheel slots also which would give enough slop for the wheel flanges to rub in the wheel wells. I have no intention of trying to install brass shims. I'm tired and these locos aren't worth it now with the Atlas version on board. Using the same track and cars I used to test the Bmanns I broke out both both the Atlas 4-4-0 and the Atlas 2-6-0. Both took hold of those cars and moved them without the slightest effort or wheel slip in forward and reverse. I added a 4% grade and both climbed it with some wheel slip. I backed the grade down to 2% and they raced to the top with no wheel slip. The Bmann suffers from poor quality materials and workmanship and some of the materials appear to have a shelf life. Unfortunately these need a metal cab for weight and certainly after all these years some better tender wheel arrangements. I don't believe the so called newer versions are any better with the exception of a better motor. I'm applying one more coat of Bullfrog to the 4-6-0 drivers to see if that helps. And I have some thin sheet lead in one of my weight boxes that I will cut and trim and give them another layer on the roof to see if that helps the traction in reverse not to mention forward. If not then it is retirement time for the kitbashed 4-6-0s and the auxillary tenders will get placed on M of W flats for water tanks. Maybe one will even get mounted on some legs to be a log camp water tank. Last surviving Bmann oldtimers getting some application of the old Bullfrog sinus drainage.
John, for the sake of those wonderful 4-6-0's you've bashed, I'm tellin' ya, I think the Micro-Ace/Atlas 2-6-0 tender transplant with the motor inside would work.... and I've verified that I have two complete tenders in the parts box... I could be convinced to take a crack at one. Don't feel bad though. If you look on my HVRR article in MR, you'll see a nice custom-painted 4-4-0 for Hickory Valley that I ended up scrapping out for the same reasons. It finally got to the point there it was either going to be scrapped or become a weapon of minor destruction.
If you noted in the post it was the same Atlas 2-6-0 along with the new 4-4-0 that I did a comparision test with the Bmanns so I am familar with the tender since I installed oil bunks on my two. One of my 4-6-0s developed a severe hitch in it's giddy up gear this afternoon so it is heading to scrap. Of the two I have it is the one that is not quite up to my craft standards anyhow. The remaining one and probably one of the 4-4-0s I'm going to go after those wheel wells. I installed additional weight under the cab roof where a cab side curtain would hide it and I got some further improvement but not adequate. I had one that had a weight extension added with cab curtains hiding it before. It just wasn't Tungsten. So at some point in time I will route out the wheel wells a little wider in the process getting rid of the fenders. Then I will probably shim the axle slots to get rid of the vertical slop that has developed. Even using the Bullfrog Snot and the extra weight it is not gripping the rails as it should and the wheel wells are causing excessive drag on the drivers. That will be the last effort I put in these. I have two of Bmann's newer 4-6-0s and have enough parts in the steam box to be able to slightly backdate these some so no loss. With the Atlas 4-4-0s and the 2-6-0s plus my old time 2-8-0 I have a nice stable of small older steam which will do this old geezer just fine. I do appreciate the offer though and thanks.
Well the grinding out the fenders and enlarging the space for the wheels did some improvement. I also noticed that the loco did not set level and the first drivers were just a tad high so I filed out the axle slot a little to even up the wheels. I remembered I had some traction tires and went back to them and actually got a little more improvement over using the Bullfrog Snot. However the improvements still did not add up to the original performance so this evening I am officially terminating this project. I will keep a couple with the siderods removed to set on the track behind the engine house awaiting movement to the scrapper. As I said earlier a couple of the tenders will find new uses. Detail parts that were added will get recycled since some of those parts are getting harder to get like the MT pilots. I already have a use for the tender wheels. They will go under some speeders and trailing cars since the wheels supplied with those are not insulated and these are and can then be set on a live track. So if nothing else I have provided some entertainment during this project and maybe some trouble shooting guides for those who are unfortunate enough to have some of these on the roster. And my CFO and Comptroller of the Wallet also approves of the scrapping. She stated that I had spend to long with too much frustration working on these. A little postscript to finish. I broke out one of the Atlas 4-4-0s and was showing the CFO it's performance when Deekus The Cat, who until now had been watching quietly, reached out a paw and swiped it almost off the track. Well two more circuits later it took a hop in the air and derailed on it side. Found the engineer's side main rod loose and separated from the piston rod assembly. That quick slap had caused the problem. I thought that it was broken but a quick look with the old specs determined that it was two parts and I was able to reattach both and then gently get it back within the guides. Points out again how delicate these little gals are but dang if they don't run good as compared to the crap I was working on. Oh and Deekus is now in the cat equivalent of time out hiding in a linen hamper in the hall outside my workshop.
I knew my friend "snoop the worthless cat" wouldn't be able to resist the mouse sized rolling stock moving on the layout. So I used my old method to control her desire to attack the trains. Bought a half dozen mouse traps, set them and covered them with a sheet of copy paper. Even when the traps are sprung they don't get caught, the paper wads up. Was just about to go to sleep that night, and heard most of the traps snapping in succession. After that, just kept some sheets of paper on the layout overhanging the edge so she could see them. That was about 5-6 years ago and now she just takes her place on one of the high storage shelves....must be that cats love to be able to look down on us.:teeth:
