I thought hobbys were s'posed to be fun

I have always loved trains. Whether real or modeled. I have lived by railroad tracks several times in my life, for the majority of my life. My grandfather was a fireman on the B&O, My uncle worked for the Railway Express. I guess you could say it's in my blood. My uncle(same as above), got me started in model railroading when I was about 5 years old. His whole basement was an HO layout. I got started several times in HO but my attempts at building a layout were frequently abandoned as my father was an erector-engineer, and we traveled with him throughout the US and Canada quite often. I always dabbled in HO, detailing locos and cars to run on my uncle's layout. It was in 1979, after my father died that I decided to build an N scale layout. I needed something to distract me from the shock of his sudden passing. I built the layout, having bought only one loco and a few cars. As I accumulated more locos and rolling stock I became very frustrated and disappointed with the poor quality of equipment that was available in N scale. Turnouts that simply didn't work, Locos that sounded and operated like coffee grinders with virtually no slow speed operation, constant derailments. In less than a year, I boxed the whole thing up and later sold the whole lot to a co-worker. Why? Because it wasn't fun. It was frustrating. I went back to buying HO locos, detailing them and putting them on static display. Swearing that I would NEVER go back to N scale. 3 years ago I attended a large train show near my home and got to talking to the local Ntrak club members at their set-up. Well, I was hooked again and I've never been happier. I think that having that first experience in N scale could be the reason that I don't understand why some people can be so un-happy and frustrated with N scale railroading today. I see so much negativity on the N scale chat forums. My God, how can these people be happy with their hobby when they are constantly berating it? There isn't nearly as much bickering on the HO or O scale.
Does modeling in 160:1 drive some people over the edge?
I am continually amazed at the quality, detail and reliability of most of the N scale models available today and I can't understand why more people aren't. As modelers it should be understood that it is impossible to exactly duplicate something in 160:1, Yet I constantly see threads with comments like "the wheels are too small" or " the flanges are too big" or "the railings aren't bent right". THESE ARE MODELS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! DONE IN 160:1! There are boundries of physical impossibility in recreating and mass producing every piece of a given prototype. If the wheel flanges were to scale olcos and cars would never stay on the track as the weight ratio is far less than 160:1. You don't need a degree in physics to realize this.
I also think that it is often forgotten that children and novice adults are ALSO hobbiests, and customers of companies such as Atlas, Bachman, Kato and the like. Are we so arrogant as supposed experienced modelers to think that newcomers and kids should be ignored in favor of super highly detailed cars, track and locos that are neither user friendly nor affordable?
Modeling is a compromise. A balance between cosmetic accuracy and practicality. The higher the cosmetic accuracy, the more fragile a model becomes. To a point where the only way the model can survive is behind a glass case. Completely impracticle for someone who wants to run these models on track. Today's N scale products are a pretty good comprimise. Very good detail with excellent running aspects, while still leaving room for the avid detailer.
I fear that N scale is getting an un-deserved, bad reputation in this age of instant messaging. I work part-time at a local hobby shop and often hear comments from customers who want to get into model railroading, about the things that they hear about N scale on chat rooms and forums. This on-going slaming and bickering gives the average person the impression that N scale is full of problems as well as un-happy modelers.
I love my hobby. Any aspect of it (with the possible exception of wiring), gives me hours of pleasure. I am grateful for nearly every new loco or car that comes out because even the worst loco made today is sooooooooo much better than the ones that were made during my first experience in N scale. As technology continues to advance, there very well may come a day when N scale locos have opening doors, working fans and windshield wipers, a tiny prime mover and an air compressor to work the tiny air brakes. Until then I will enjoy running my trains without the use of a jeweler's loop.
Well, there it is. You all know where I come from now. I challenge some of you to look inside yourselves and try to find the reason WHY you like N scale model railroading. Especially when you feel the need to lash out at a fellow hobbiest. Spirited discussions are fine, but remember. Something that you may be tempted to berate may be the pride and joy of someone else's. If you truly can't find anything positive to discuss, you should probably try another scale or another hobby.
Warren Lindner
HERMANzGERMAN

 

Very well put Warren, and I couldn't agree with you more. It seems to me that N scale equipment has improoved over the years. It has been my experience that HO has not improoved over the years in some aspects though. The looks has become better, and if all you are interested in is watching a train run around, then the equipment has become better right out of the box. If your interest is in having the fun of putting an engine together, detailing it, painting and lettering it, and having reliable working couplers, and no derailments, then it has degraded quite a bit in quality and dependability.
My attitude is to live and let live. If you do not really enjoy our hobby yourself, then you best get out of it. "Love it or Leave it" as we say about America.

 

Over the years I learned to superdetail and scratchbuild due to necessity. I couln't and still can't afford brand new anything. I buy old used and non running units that may be missing parts or handrails and such and then rebuild them from the frame up. Most are Bachman and Modelpower and are kinda loud and not so smooth all the time. I find though, that I'm greatly satisfied with these units with just a little work. Its very fun to me to try and figure out whats wrong with non-running units and also how to model my railroad (SP) with what "junk" I can find. Kato and Atlas are Godsends if you ask me!! (I'll put my two Bachman GP40s up against any other pair of engines any day). I think you can do just as much in N if not more as in any other scale. Might take more time and effort for some but this can result in even more satisfaction. Some people may go ahead and downrate Atlas and Kato but when you do, just think of those of us like me who can't even get one unless it is a rejection from someone else. Even with all the problems I face in assembling a model railroad that runs smoothly most of the time, I still love N scale and wouldn't go to HO if ya held a gun to my head. So if any of you have Atlas or Katos you just can't stand for whatever reason, just give em to me and we can all be happy

Oh and by the way, I've heard of people doing working fans in N. Sounds crazy if ya ask me!!

 

John, I hear those working fans blow the ballast up into the air and foul your track, besides the whine they make bothers your neighbors!

 

I guess I don't get it. I don't have time to get in all these chat rooms for N-Scale. Where are these chat rooms for N-Scale anyway? Anybody got some address's? I use my time to be working on the layout. TRAINBOARD is about the only website for N-Scale that I go to very much. I not a "rivet counter" some people take modeling the prototype to the extreme. Not me. I have adopted the idea of "good enough" So what if my Mikados are pulling a couple of auto racks, 89ft high cube boxcars. It is still my railroad and I'll do what I want. If somebody doesn't like, TOO BAD. I built it and I run it the way I want.
I have been in N-Scale for over 25 years now. I just see N-Scale getting better by the day. Look at the engines we have now, laser cut kits, DCC, electronic sound, track work, etc. etc. I could not ever talk down N-Scale, I would have nothing bad to say about the scale.
One of the main reasons for my personal like of N-Scale is the fellowship and attitude of most N-Scalers. We are a clannish bunch, we help each other out and we stick together. NTRAK has helped alot in this area. NTRAK developed standards for a world-wide N-Scale modelling. Kentuckiana Society of N-Scalers(KSONS) is a great group of people, who all model in N-Scale using NTRAK standards. I have been a member for over 15 years now and count many members as good friends.
But I still keep on idea in my mind. IF IT AIN'T FUN DON'T DO IT, and MODEL RAILROADING IS FUN!

I've ran off at the mouth enough now, lets go down to the layout and operate the INDIANA RAILWAY.

______MARK______

 

<font color="336633">well said HERMANzGERMAN </font>

[ 04 August 2001: Message edited by: StickyMonk ]</p>

 

A poor post Warren. I didnt agree with most of what you said. And why do most of you always have to give your life stories with messages like these?

So here goes. I dont know where you or others get these nuances that there is constant negativity on N scale forums. Just look at the threads on Trainboard, the Yahoo groups, the Atlas Discussion board, or any others. Your to find more questions and information sharing then anything else, with a couple of posts that have critcism in them. However to you, criticsim is negative, bad, and obviously if you criticize you must hate this hobby or whoever posted a message you disagree with. We all critcize because we feel something could be better, and thats exactally what is going on here. You put in some wish-wash how since this is 1:160 scale nothing needs to be done, just stand back 10 ft and enjoy your trains. Uh...no. Nobody here is asking for superdetailed pieces, just letting a manufacturer get a product at least dimensionally correct and offering it to be easily modified to suit the differnt prototypical configurations. Please go look at what the real RC fliers are doing, or the 2mm modelers in 1:152 and you'll see we are years behind any of them, let alone the static militray modelers, including those in 1:1200 or 1:500 scale. They strive to continually advance, while most in 1:160 are "eh, good enough". HO and O scale are now well ahead on there own, and flourishing. N scale is plauged by limited availibility, only a couple of companies offering parts and components, and still too few modelers out there that really get into this hobby to really put money in it. Saying that models 20 years ago were horrible that we should be greatful for those now and leave it at that is just the opposite of everyone else out there. HO was pretty crude for most back in the 80s, and gained speed during that decade, and now it is huge, and large market of parts, engines, and hundreds of products. The same thing roughly happened to us in 87, but we have stayed the same after that more or less. Most love this hobby, yet really dont care for the real railroads, or have any interest in how things were done or want to concern themselves. Fine, but dont ruin it for the ones that really want this hobby to where we will be able to suit everyone's demands

Mike Antkowiak
my ramble

 

Mike. I've got you figured out. N scale modeling runs secondary with you. Your real hobby is sitting at your computer, hopping from site to site, causing controversy whenever and wherever you can. You constantly and systematically dismantle peoples posts sentence by sentence usually injecting the exact opposite. Opinions and discussion aren't nearly as important to you as confrontation and contriversy. If you spent more time actually modeling in N scale and less time on your computer, you might not be so disagreeable. I don't dislike you. I feel sorry for you. Having said that, this is the last time I will ever respond to one of your posts as
to do so would just be feeding your need for attention. You can call this a negative post if you want, but anyone with eyes and ears that work can see the truth for what it is.
Warren

 

"IMHO, if you don't like a post, pass it by- I don't read everything posted to Trainboard, and neither does anyone else.

I'm here to learn even more about the stuff now available in N scale. Criminy, it's a FREAKIN' HOBBY!"

I dont like certain posts and for some I dont reply but for most I do. Others simply wail and leave the forum because they cant handle a real debate. Thats their deal. And hobby it is, a hobby where we spend hours and money to enjoy working on it, and a hobby where we have alot of control over what we do and want to do. Whats the big deal?

Now Warren, it's great you have a degree in physcology and have been studying so intently to figure me out. I really dont care what your agenda is, let alone if you'll repond to my posts or not, Ill still reply to yours as this is a public forum Warren, you know what those are? Its where people with differing opinions, attitudes and experiences come together to share information. Whether that information be relevant or not, that doesnt really matter. Its you who has a problem, on the Atlas forum and now here. Its called debate, where people who disagree with each other rebute each other through what they said. I mean come on, "constantly and systematically dismantle peoples posts sentence by sentence usually injecting the exact opposite"????? Your making me look like some manipulation god whose sole purpose is to rein on N scale forums and shoot my mouth off on every single issue I see that has any controversy, or differing opinions. Hardly. I dont know why you had to say this, I didnt go after you or anything, it's probably because I disagreed with what you said. God forbid that.

Now, you dont even know anything about me, yet you pass judgements, not even ask what my deal here is. I cannot take this, so here's my story. I enjoy talking with other people, especially debatable issues becuase it allows everyone to mix there opinions and form something out of them, hopefully constructive, but sometimes not. I enjoy listening to other opinions and comparing them to my own or forming my own from them. I model very heavily in N scale, and especially like working and detailing locomotives. Right now I am starting a scratchbuilding project, a motorized Burro crane, and am finishing up some buildings for my club's layout. I am even starting my own detail parts company to fill in the huge dearth that there is in N scale. But no, all I do is sit on my ass and "cause controversy". The only reason I am now heavily involved in alot of forums is that my current internship has alot of free time between projects and what better thing to do then talk trains? But I bet you were just itching for me to post something so you could say what you just did.

Mike Antkowiak

Ears dont work well in these types of forums

 

My Webster's Dictionary defines Hobby as: "An activity or interest outside of ones regular work primarily for pleasure." It then goes on to give a history of the word. The word 'hobby' is a shortened form of 'hobbyhorse' which originally denoted a small horse and was later applied to a child's toy horse that could be rode. . . . "A person with a 'hobby" was was thought to pursue a favorite pastime or obsession with the single minded zeal of a child riding a hobbyhorse."
Which goes a long way to explain some of the childish posts on this and other forums.

 

Seems to me that there is a diffence between debating the merits of someones product and trashing it because you don't like this or that about it.

If you want to debate something why not just state what you like/dislike on say the GP38 and ASK others opinions?

The fact is there is no perfect model of anything unless you've built it yourself then it most likely is only perfect to you.

To those of you who want freestanding grabirons, mu hoses,working fans and the like fine I have no argument with you it's your model. Those off you who are happy with adding couplers,snowplows,and dummy ditchlites go for it By the way this is the group I subscribe to.

The biggest problem I see is that too many seem to forget that a hobby is different things to different people,but it is still just a hobby.

Ok ,who wants the soapbox next??

[ 03 August 2001: Message edited by: Catt ]</p>

 

Warren, the short answer is: Yes, hobbies are supposed to be fun. Just because others aren't having fun doesn't mean you can't have fun. If you can go into your train room/garage/workshop and have fun, that's all that matters...Enjoy

 

It would be nice to walk into my local hobby shop looking for a particular model ,knowing if its sold out,I can order one and expect it shortly.I understand the reasons for limited runs,but I don't have to like them......