I'm not sure what the problem is bending the track after soldering. I have always done it that way and never experienced any problems.... Always keep the sliding rail on the same side of the turn. Never alternate inside and outside sliding rail between track pieces. That will cause gauge issues in between the staggered joint. It seems like the more efficient way to use track but the proper way is to use a common system everywhere. There are all kinds of arguments as to which is better, sliding rail on the inner or outer, i don't care which you pick but do it the same way everywhere. I typically put the sliding rail on the outside as shown below. The outside track, just before the track enters the tunnel has a staggered joint in it... and this track is alot tighter radius than Rick's example. I think it is 12" R if I remember correctly. Not a kink to be found....
Skip, Looking mighty fine. I see where you offset the joints. I watched as a friend of mine demonstrating his track laying ability (I think with the intenet of proving me wrong.) He soldered two rails together not offsetting the joints. As he went to bend the rail it kinked (Big Time). You've offset your joints and that's what makes it work. I prefer the sliding rail on the outside as well. Looks good and once you know how and have done it a few times it is easy as...well...maybe not that easy but it doesn't hurt to know how.hboy:
I can join track with with the joints side by side, then bend it and not get a kink. I just prefer to offset the joints. Once you solder two rails together, they act as one, and as long as you make a clean tidy solder joint, it won't effect the flex of the track or even be noticable.
I am laying Peco Code 55 Flex for the first time and am experimenting on a 4x6 double main-line loop to gain experience. My first attempt has no soldering and aligned joints and has some kinks. The Peco Flex Track does not have a rail that slides easily so I am not so sure I will be able to offset the joints ... Paul
Paul, I'm helping a friend with his layout. He is using Atlas Code 55 and we are able to slide the rail and offset the joints. You are correct it is a bit stiffer and resistant to being curved. Skip, Not to create an argument or even be argumentative with you. Speaking strictly from experience, as is the case for both of us. I've built layouts in extreme temperature environments. There are some tricks to doing such. Establishing, we all lay track, solder or install track with as many ways as their are modelers in the hobby. There are those who may need to know: I consider the weakest point on any track laying project to be the rail joiners or where two rails join. I've heard M.O.W. speak of the same head aches, on the 1X1 foot scale. Safe to say their problems and headaches are no different then ours. Never mind the lose of conductivity. Before, I get into all of this. I do use a Gap Filling Cyanoacrylate to glue the bottom of the rail joiners to the plastic ties, to hold the rail in place or in gauge. In hopes I don't have to come back and reqauge the track later on. I also cut in heat gaps or expansion and contraction joints, glueing them in place but set-up to allow them to float. I hate to use my friends layouts as examples BUT... On one of the layouts (working with HO Atlas Flex) he stripped the plastic ties back to make it easier to install the rail joiners two on each side. Followed by soldering the joints directly across from each other and then bent it to form-up (what should of been a perfect curve) a lovely kink in the rail. I've tried to fix it for him but because he used foam as a sub-road bed you can't push it back into alignment using rail spikes or brads. It's a start over - do over project. On my own layout, considering it's location (a tin shed), the extreme temperature variance (12 degrees upwards to 100 degrees F), the enemy... contraction and expansion. The rails will push or pull against the weakest link (taking the path of least resistance) and eventually kink the rail....where else...at the rail joiner. Occasionally, (not that often) I have to re-gauge the track by using a brad and then reglueing the rail (in hopes it will hold it in gauge) with CA. If what you are doing is working for you, the environment is not extreme, you shouldn't change your way and means. Or as some may percieve make it more difficult. For me it's simply easier to (in my words) let experience do the talking and do it right the first time.:uhoh:
There's the secret..Nice,clean,strong solder joints.Also,you need to START bending the installed track at the joint,and work out from there,keeping pressure off the joint.I've gotten to the point where I developed ways to just lay one piece after another,and my trackwork is flawless..
Rick, I will try harder to shift the rail on the flex track as I would prefer to offset the joints. Lou, I like the 'boasting' as my goal is to have flawless trackwork. Yesterday I soldered the outer loop and while it is not as pretty as I would like, it is solid and smooth (at least on the top and inside of the rails). I took one of those 3 point track alignment tools and mounted it to a trammel and curve the track while tacking it down. That part is going very smoothly. My SP Morning Daylight runs nicely through the 21" curves ... Now I need to keep practicing my soldering ... Paul
One more thing I need to mention. Rail Joiners and soldering rail together on my work bench. If I solder (and I have) two pieces of flex track together, straight (without bending them). I find the need to resolder the joint because, now I have a flat or straight spot in the rail. The tighter or sharper the curve the more exaggerated the flat or straight spot. It took a while for me to get used to laying my rail as I placed it but now I wouldn't do it anyother way. Just a thought.
Tony, I think many problems come from unclean, untidy solder joints. From what I've seen over the years, and what I used to do, many rail joints are cold-soldered. For those not familiar with the term, cold-soldering means that the rails and joiners are not clean enough nor hot enough for the solder to flow and bond completely to the parts. A cold joint will either break where the rails meet, causing a kink, or become so stiff with a blob of solder that the rails will kink at either end of the joint. An older brother was the "king of solder" for a major computer company when solder was important, and he taught me the cleanliness and heat required. You can't just slip a joiner between two rails, put a lot of flux on it, and hope that, after a few seconds, solder will flow. Solder will always flow with enough heat, but that doesn't mean it will bond effectively with the three components. When he soldered my track, after cleaning it and fluxing it with a tiny brush, (and also tinning the soldering tip), the solder flowed within 0.1 second, and the joint had no blob--it was, as you remarked, nearly invisible.
Pete,at most,if I'm reusing old track,I'll give the ends a quick pass with a small brass brush to shine the rail up a little before I solder it.I always use new joiners,and,really important,Radio Shack solder.I raced RC cars for 20+ years,built my own cars/battery pack,I build custom bikes,used to do electrical work on huge printing presses,plus 40 years of scratchbuilding trains and fixing things you can't imagine, so I need to be able to wire ANYTHING,I've probably worn out 30 soldering irons.To this day,I go through a pound of solder a month,I tried them all,Radio Shack solder is the best.REALLY,some solders are HORRIBLE,don't just use any dollar store garbage,it's cheap for a reason.I don't even use flux,don't even own any.Well,except for high temp[1500 degree..] silversolder I use for building custom motorcycle/gun parts.The key to soldering anything is,make sure it's clean,use good solder,get it ripping hot quick,and GO FOR IT.You can't hesitate,trying to keep it from getting hot is totally the wrong thing to do,instead of getting one area really hot,you end up heating way more than you intended..I usually set my soldering station to 750 degrees.Touch the iron to the inside of the rail touching both rails and the joiner.Using thin rosin core solder,touch the solder to the outside of the rail at the intersection of the rails and the joiner.If you get it right,the solder should suck right into the joiner/rail gap,and be almost invisible.The absolute toughest part is knowing when to stop adding solder.As soon as it flows,remove the iron..Soldering irons are like dogs..They can SMELL fear..
I've done very little soldering of track and noticed that the ties begin to melt rather quickly where the contact the rail. How do you overcome this when you solder as described in the post above? Also, I never have been able to picture what is meant by soldering the track while it's straight, then laying it on a curve. How do the rail joiners pass through the plastic tie spikes as the joints begin to stagger?
Never much liked Radio Shack solder. I have always used Kester 44 60/40 Rosin Core solder until recently. We had always carried the Kester at the shop but can't get it now. We tried a bunch of brands we had available to us and settled on Minatronics brand solder. I think I may like it better than the Kester and it is a little cheaper. It flows great and it may melt at a slightly lower temp than the Kester. Melted ties are usually due to a weak soldering iron. It takes a very hot iron to solder heavier gauge wire and rail properly. A weak iron give the items you are soldering time to soak up the heat faster than the iron can keep up. The heat transfers down the rail and melts ties. Done properly, soldering a rail joint should only take about 5 seconds. Any more than that and the heat is going down the rails and doing damage. I use a Weller D220 gun (200W) or an adjustable temp solder station that can maintain 850+ degrees when soldering. Trying to solder rail with a 20W Walmart pencil iron will always lead to failure. You can get a decent Weller 60W iron that will do fairly well for around $20-30.
When you solder you need to get the area you're trying to flow the solder onto hot, typically at least 450 degrees, the actual temperature required depends on the solder you're using. You normally want to keep this heat localized at the area where the joint is being made. The problem with soldering track is the heat doesn't want to stay at the joint. The rail and feeders you're soldering are conductors which means in addition to conducting electricity they also conduct heat. If you try to solder with to small a soldering iron you need to hold the iron in place longer which gives the heat time to spread down the rail melting the ties. If you use a higher wattage iron you can get the joint area hot quicker without the heat spreading. Another problem with taking to long to get the joint to heat is the solder tends to break down. When you're done the solder should be shiny. If it has a dull look, similar to brushed pewter, it's been overheated. As mentioned before it shouldn't take more then a few seconds for the joint to get hot enough to cause the solder to flow. If it takes longer the iron may not be hot enough for the solder being used, it may not be large enough for the parts being soldered, or the joint may not be clean. Depending on how many different things you solder you'll probably need more then one soldering iron. A temperature controlled soldering station with interchangeable tips and a 200 watt gun are probably the minimum. Trying to make good solder joints on everything with just one iron would be like trying to work on your car with only one wrench. Also, if you're still having problems you might want to try applying a little flux to the joint before you heat it. Even if you're using flux core solder sometimes a little extra helps. Apply at little to the joint area with a tooth pick prior to applying heat. Just make sure to use rosin flux not acid flux. You can get a small container of flux made for electrical connections at Radio Shack. Don't use the stuff that you buy in the plumbing section.
I lay track one piece at a time,more or less like you'd lay sectional track,but I've been doing it that way for years,it's very difficult,but you pretty much don't waste any track.What is meant by solder it straight,then bend it is,after it's soldered,place the joint at a stationary point,so the rail doesn't move at the joint,then bend the track out TO the straight sections,and join it on the straights to the next pieces of track.You end up with a wasted track doing that,but if you're inexperienced,it's the easiest way to get good trackwork,since all joints are made on straight sections.AS far as ties melting,they're going to no matter what you do.However,if you do it FAST,damage is minimal because the heat stays localized.I use a razorsaw to cut the spikes off the tie where the joiner slides on,the heat gets it just nicely hot enough that the joiner just melts INTO the tie enough so the tie becomes level with the other ties.It is,however,easier to cut off a tie at each end of the track you're joining,then add some after soldering.
As a former NASA certified solderer(50 years ago) I agree with what skipgear and markwr say above. On my layout it is hard to find the rail joints unless you look for the rail joiners. Never had a problem with the rail kinking at a well soldered joint, even on 10" curves. Al
Alright guys, now don't be knocking my soldering.:teeth: I hardly ever melt a tie and or the plasitc spike heads. I don't end up with cold solder joints. I've never had to remove a melted tie and or replace it. My joints are a bit sloppy but after all I'm the one I have to please. I've shared my techiques in hope others can benefit. For those of you experts, you are certainly welcome to stop by and do a show me. Demo's are good. It's difficult to create a verbal picture of how each of us does things. Never mind the condratictory information that can only be confusing to the OP, at best. Better to be able to give a live demo. Now, I know I'm repeating myself. Best of luck to Fotheringill. I wouldn't give up but work with some wasted track and see what it can teach you.:closedmouth:
Tony, Perfect! Thanks for sharing this video. Precisely how I sweat solder into the rail joiner or joint. Here's another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJCOqHTN3rM&feature=player_embedded He has removed some ties, I seldom if ever do and don't feel it's needed. Check it out. LOL... even I learned something from this video.
I cheat a little bit and use a heat sink. This is care of Rodney's Train Tools. It is his 3-1 track tool. Worth it's weight in gold when working with flex track. You can also rotate it 90 degrees and use it for parallel track alignment Then there is the set of Ribbon Rail curved track gauges. They also help a great deal when laying flex or hand-laid track.
