How much space is a 4x8 in N really?

Hey there. Totally new to model trains and haven't seen any N scale stuff in person yet so not really sure of what the size really is. Want to make a layout from a 4x8 foam board and plywood which I know is usually used for HO and such. I know you can do a lot more in the same space in N than HO but how much space is that really? What can one really do with that? I'm more of a scenery type guy than about operations and such (really only have a very basic idea of what that is anyways ha). I do want more than just a round and round and the like but for the most part that's what I want. So like a round and round plus extra features for industry stuff an the like. So any help really with me figuring out what I can actually do in 4x8 would be awesome thanks

 

One of my favorite layouts is a 4x8 N scale. Sorry to be so vauge but it was in the december 93 Model Railroader and is a double track main based on a Conrail div. Someone modeified it with a extension and it was in N Scale Railroading a few years back. I hope someone else can give more info but they did a really good job and it is worth a look.
Kevin

 

It's pretty astounding how much can be done with a 4' X 8' space in N scale -



-Mark

 

Google "N scale 4x8 layout" images and you will get a good idea of what can be done. You can easily do 20-inch radius curves, which look pretty good in N. One of my favorite tricks is to take an HO scale plan you like (there have been hundreds published for 4x8) and build it in N without scaling it down. You should be able to fit in an extra siding or two, have plenty of room for scenery, and everything will look more realistic than it would in HO.

 

Right at 32 square feet, the same as it would be in HO scale. I know that wasn't the answer you were looking for.

N scale is just a bit bigger then half of HO. Since I'm not heavy into technicalities I'll let a nuts and bolt counter fill in the blanks...with the details. A 4X8 works well for most of us who built layouts in HO. Darn those tight radius curves. For example an 18" radius curve in HO is tight but in N scale it's nice!

Lot's of options out there for a N scale, 4x8 model railroad. Do an oogle google search or one of the many other searches out there. Here you go: http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt...ot Layouts, N Scale&fr2=sb-top&fr=ush-mailn

 

4'x8' Is what I'm working with. What I'm doing is probably too roundy round for your taste though, but still, might help give you a little perspective:



[video=youtube_share;pWaDRU_I0BA]http://youtu.be/pWaDRU_I0BA[/video]

People have said some good things about what I've done, so hopefully it can help you figure things out a little bit

 

I have a 4x8' N scale layout.

It's too small to have staging, but it's big enough to have 15" or larger radius curves (I have 18").

 

Since you're brand-spanking new to model railroading, the posts here are assuming you know some very basic things, which you probably don't.

N-scale vs HO-scale is a great question and is basically what your question is all about. Even though HO-scale is only twice as large as N-scale, ANY actual space you have will equal roughly four times the effective space in N-scale vs HO-scale. That's easy enough, but what does that mean?

From an operations standpoint and realistic running "look", the curves in N-scale equal roughly two times the radius as in HO-scale in the same "actual space"...meaning, an 18" radius in N-scale is the equivalent of a 36" radius in N-scale, and an 18" radius in HO scale is the equivalent of a 9" radius in N-scale.

This translates to trains that look much more realistic in N-scale because the curves are broader (because the equipment is shorter). 18" radii and above are considered "broad" in N-scale.

You can also get twice as many tracks in a yard in the same actual space as HO, because you can space them twice as close together...but, that means you can stuff four times the amount of cars into that yard...not merely twice as many. Single track sidings that are the same length as on an HO scale plan will accommodate twice as many cars in N-scale. Mainline trains can have twice the amount of cars if you want, or you can keep the trains the same length as on the HO scale plan, but easily run twice as many...(maybe four times as many???...Hmmm...I'm sticking with twice as many).

A town in the same space as an HO scale layout will have four times as many buildings and look four times bigger...that's because it's twice as long and twice as wide as an equivalent HO scale town. Tunnels will be twice as long and mountain ranges and scenic elements will be effectively twice as "big" from a linear viewpoint, but have 8 times the effective volume as HO-scale mountains (two times as long, two times as wide, two times as high).

Volume involves a bit of thinking. If you have one HO scale car, it's twice as long, twice as wide and twice as tall as an equivalent N-scale car...that's the actual volume. In the same volume as the HO scale car, you can place 8 N-scale cars to fill up the same space. So, N-scale mountains have are effectively 8 times the volume as HO scale mountains in relation to the the trains and the rest of the scenery.

This isn't just a intellectual exercise, because N-scale is well-known to have a much better "scenery-to-track-ratio" over HO scale or any of the other larger scales. Scenes can look noticeably more real because scenic elements are easy to make look larger in N-scale than in HO-scale.

I have an LDE (Layout Design Element) which is of Echo Utah in 1951. It's about 18 feet long and at its widest point, it's 4 feet wide. Even in N-scale it's a big scene, but it's manageable. However, in HO-scale it'd be 36 feet long by 8 feet deep if it were scaled up...which is NOT manageable.

So, a 4X8 layout in N-scale is the equivalent of an 8X16 layout in HO-scale...four sheets of plywood. It's the equivalent of four times the "acreage" over HO-scale, even though it's twice as small (or HO is twice as big as N).

There ya go. The advice to build an HO scale layout in N-scale in the same space, using the same radii is good advice, but be aware that it doesn't translate directly. Track center-to-center distance is half, sidings can be half as long if ya want, and 18" or 20" mainline radii will allow you to run the biggest and longest engines and cars. Your little HO scale branchline layout becomes a Union Pacific or Pennsy if you keep your mainline radii above 18".

Also be aware that isleways don't shrink on non-sheet-of-plywood layouts because us humans are the same girth in N-scale as in the rest of the scales.

Welcome to the hobby! And, I'd seriously be considering N-scale because it has many advantages over the larger scales...and a few disadvantages too...but we won't discuss those!

Cheers!
Bob Gilmore

 

The 4 by 8 foot has probably been the most designed format for model railroading since the hobby began and there are literally hundreds if not thousands of plans in a number of scales from Z to On30. But the 4 by 8 can eat up some space if used with access to all sides. At the minimum one has to add 18 inches around the sides for aisle space and more for a lot of us who have managed to broaden our (ahem) outlook over the years. So unless you have a big basement room you are dealing with the normal room dimensions which means not much space left for anything else. Stick a 4 by 8 in a 11 by 12 room and add aisle space. Not much room left. Put that 4 by 8 against a wall or in a corner with two sides against the walls and the old my arms are too short kicks in. A 30 inch reach is about the normal for a lot of us, some a bit more some a bit less.

However take that 4 by 8 and split it into two sections and you have a lot more potential. The max for length of run is about 16 feet. What does get sacrificed is the wide curvature going down to about 11 inch radius. Most locomotives will operate on 11 inch radius but the smaller 4 axle diesel and smaller steam look better on that radius. Fit the two pieces into a L shape and place in a corner and the available space in the room frees up for other things including a later expansion with an industrial spur or a branch line. And the reach factor now drops to a nice easy 24 inches. Larger radius can be had by simply taking another piece of plywood and splitting to add a wider section at each end essentially making a bent dogbone shape that runs around two sides of the room. And a lot of scenic effect and trackwork can be had with only 24 to 30 inches wide. One just has to look at what the NTrak folks have done in that depth.

 

How much space is it really? About 18.8 scale acres, a little less than quarter mile by a little less than 1/8 mile. Not a lot of real estate unless you're building a Walmart, a gas station and a half dozen fast food pads. Not a lot of space for a railroad.
I'm not being facetious; simply pointing out the space limitations we all have to live with, and N scale, as has already been noted, is a lot easier to fit a given space....
You got some good advice here, now go have fun...
Otto K.

 

From my own experience, somewhere between 4x6 and 4x8 is the point where 3 train operation becomes something to consider while not requiring a ridiculous level of track density.

By that, I mean you have enough room for a yard big enough to justify a dedicated switcher, somewhere for a road switcher to go to, and enough room for passenger/through trains to operate without interfering with the other two trains. At the same time, you have a decent amount of scenery and industries big enough to justify switching more than one a month.