How do you make most purchases?

Another poll got me to thinking about how we make our N scale purchases and why?

If Nscale is to increase further in popularity availability of N scale eqipment will need to improve. Perhaps the way we purchase items has a bearing on this.

 

You got a common problem.

My wife got me a gift certificate for $150.00 for Christmas one year before she found out it would be almost worthless. I went to the only store it was good at, and found that all the prices were exactly double than those advertized in the Model Railroader and Model Railroad Craftsman.

Also, it was not printed on the certificate, but, you could not get your money back at all, and it was only good for certain items carried in stock at that store.

There were several other customers also becoming aware of this scam.

I finally settled on one engine they had that I could use, and that they would honor the certificate for.

I had to pay $149.95 plus tax for a $69.95 Mantua 2-6-6-2 Logging Mallet!

When I got home, Jan wanted to see all the engines I had purchased. She was fit to be tied. That store is now out of business, thank the good Lord!

She will never buy anything again without consulting with me first. We have decided that we would rather get something of value and what we really want for eachother, even though we know what it is before hand.

Almost every hobby shop in the area is like that. The manufacturer's distributer will not allow enough discount to the hobby shop to make any money, so they are forced to charge way out of reason for the stuff that only costs the manufacturer a few bucks to make.

Now that the manufacturers have found out we will pay the high price for their products, most of them will sell direct to us, but at the same over-priced cost as a hobby shop. It used to be, you could afford to buy from either a hobby shop at a discount if a regular customer, or mail order plus postage.

I priced a BigBoy on the internet places, and most of them want between $229.00 and $289.00 for the same engine that is $189.00 in all the magazines, (until they raise their price at Christmas). You have to pay shipping and insurance for either of those on top of that. Then they keep your money tied up even if they are out of stock, same as Walthers!

You have to watch Ebay now too, because most sellers want $4.00 to $6.00 shipping, but when you get the item at your home, you see only $1.49 postage! I had one that was only 13 cents! So figure in the shipping and insurance too when you bid, unless you have unlimited finances.

The only hobby shop I dealt with was Hall's Hobby shop in Dallas. Bobby charged me the price she had in her catalog less 10% because I only bought from her as a regular customer. It was the same whether I walked in, or she mailed it to me, and most of the time it cost the same as in the magazines, or less. Besides, she even knew my name, and recognized my voice when I called.

Try to find a hobby shop like that today!

 

I have nothing against the LHS, but my only nearby store that decently stocks N-scale charges full retail price on everything.

While I would like to make my purchases there, I just can't justify spending the $$$ when my MRR budget is very tight. I simply have to go somewhere to get as much as I can for my dollar.

So just call me "Mr. Cheapskate."

 

You left out train shows, where I do a lot of buying. You can see the item, particularly if it was used. You can test it, and you can often negotiate price - particularly near the end of the show.

 

Good point, I was racking my brain about where I have purchased N scale stuff. In fact I recently spent a bunch at Supertrain in Calgary.

Thanks to those who are voting. The results are certainly interesting. If you haven't voted yet please do. The poll will end on March 10, I believe.

 

Just a few thoughts as I watch the results pour in.
1. A significant portion of modellers prefer to patronize their local hobby shop.
2. Unfortunately, 61% of modellers are unable to do this and buy elsewhere.
3. It looks like price and selection are major factors in buyers decisions as to where to shop.
4. I extrapolate this to suggest that if more local hobby shops had a good selection and were price competetive with other sellers more modellers would make their purcahses there.

Just my thoughts at this point on this topic. What do you think?

 

It seems that the "price and availability" issue plauges the LHS, particularly in N-scale. But you can't really come down too hard on them. From what I understand, most are locked into agreements with distibutors that make it difficult to offer competitive prices. So why stock something they have little hope with competing on when they constantly get beat up on price by the internet and/or mail order stores?

I think it's time for the major manufacturers to step in and eliminate the middle men that keep the prices high for the LHS - or they will soon be listed on the endangered species list (if they aren't already).

 

Grantha and Bruce - my poll also seems to mirror the observation that LHS would be more succesful if availability and selection were better, as well as pricing more in line. I use a formula when shopping at LHS - If the price is within a couple bucks of a Mail order/web price plus the shipping charge I will opt for the store.

Manufacturers/ distributors need to take a long hard look at the situation with pricing at the LHS - I think they are doing them a disservice by not offering the same or similar level of discounting as the web stores. Pretty much cutting off the hand that fed them long before there was ever an internet ( to mix a metaphor).

 

I agree with most of what everyone else has said. I am lucky I have a great local store and spend a lot of money with them. If I need something small that doesn't warrant shipping cost like paint, decals, track etc... I give them my money.

It is hard for them to compete on engines and other higher priced items so I usually purchase them on-line. It seems to work out well. The one nice thing about a good local shop is lay-away. If you want to make payments on something big it is worth a few more dollars to go local... in my opinion.

Bryan

 

I don't have to tell most folks here, but a good store offers more than just product. Store owners and clerks have helped with track plans, advice on DCC issues, heads up warning about good shows, recommendations on different building techniques, advise on other stores in town that carry a product needed for layout construction. And, they offer layaway, discounts, good sales, advice on prototypical operations and what was used when and where, and on and on. They assist on warranty claims, look at our boring pictures, and listen to our boring stories, and listen to another new convert explain in detail his boring track plan. They put up with eccentrics, thiefs, complainers, know it alls, newbies, overly persistent bargain hunters, as well as the mostly nice folk they have as a clientele.

They have people come to their store in off hours, in a panic looking for something essential. Many deal with cross border shopping and have to learn the eccentricities of the Canadian dollar. They run web sites, sell to clients around the world, sell on ebay, run clinics and listen to criticisms of their store, their stock inventory, their staff, etc. And then if they are having a bad day, they lose clients to the web who say they can get the item cheaper but look around their store, taking up the owners time answering questions about the item to be bought elsewhere.

 

Vent a little steam here...

The big wholesalers like International and Walthers who buy up a whole factory runs at a time, or just act as drop-shippers with no stock in hand, then raise the price because they have cornered the market; give a very small token discount to the Local Hobby Shops.

So we are more or less stuck with making the big guys richer, or scratch building.

I feel the big advantage of a Hobby Shop is the fact that I could actually lay hands on an Item I wanted, or could look through their catalog to see what was available, even when they might not have it in stock at the time.

I was loyal to my hobby shop because I didn't buy from anyone else for years. When new manufacturers came along, the Hobby Shop would open a new engine, and we could see how it was built, and decide whether it was worth buying or not.

The way tooling is made today, is very very expensive, because there are no serious craftsmen working in the factories now like they were back in the kit days. OK VERY few then!

Inorder to make the largest profit they can, most factories usually settle on one or two boiler types, and just change drivers and accessories to "make" another engine, in steam.

In diesel, they would make one power truck, then make temporary tooling to furnish various body shells, so that made it necessary to have "limited runs". They knew that if they only made a few, then they could also raise the price some more because of supply and demand. But each new engine was of small cost to them, while they amortized the original cost of the existing power truck! But you got charged as if they had made all new tooling for everything including a new truck!

The poor local Hobby Shop was then REQUIRED to buy a certain quota of various items that distributer sold, or nothing, so the LHS got shafted again. It is the same with an auto dealership.

Yes I have looked on Ebay some, and bought a few odd items, mostly tools, but I feel that is a real risk! Ebay is now warning us about buying from the over-seas market, because they are having big problems with several companies and sellers, who cash your checks and credit cards, but never ship your item at all! What are you going to do, run over there and throw a rock at them?

I would rather buy from someone I know, or know where I can find him, than throw my money out there and expect some guy to treat me as kindly as the Taliban, then be surprised if it arrives!

I certainly don't like it, but I do understand why a Hobby Shop has to charge double Model Railroader's advertized price. The prices used to be the same. The advantage then was to the Hobby Shop where you didn't have to wait for the mail to get your engine.

Now its Caveat Emptor!

 

Instead of considering the advertised discounted prices in Model Railroader and other magazines, the "base" price, use the MSRP given by the manufacturers as the base price. Then, ask why your LHS can't sell that engine you want for a lower price.

As a hobby retailer in a small market with very high shipping costs, I am very familiar with this complaint. But when I order items from my distributors, I am given a discount off the MSRP. Sometimes that price is higher than advertised prices in the mags, and usually lower than the best prices on eBay. Yet I have to pay for all my overhead (rent, utilities, payroll, freight) with what seems to be a steadily declining profit margin. Most other retail business could never survive on the margin we hobby retailers take for granted.

Also, some of those discounters in the mags are merely the retail outlets of distributors, who sell to us at a price barely lower than what they offer to the public. Kind of like biting the hand that feeds them. I don't support those distributors if I can avoid it; but many hobby retailers can't help but do so.

Yes, we hobby retailers need to survive with better service, wider varieties of items, and increasing knowledge of our product lines.

I'm not trying to complain, but rather offer another viewpoint into this discussion. I think the thoughts expressed before me have a pretty good handle on the situation.

Pat