How Can All These Train Shows Survive? Joint Conventions Anyone?

Chris, Good points. I'm in San Diego and driving to LA is max for me. Flying in our country is a tedious joke these days and is really a last resort for the 'average person.' In reference to an earlier post about accommodations I would have to say that San Diego hosts ComicCon or something and has over 20,000 attendees a day at our convention center. As San Diego is very accessable from most of North America and can accommodate quite large crowds I would add San Diego to the lists of reasonable venues. Jim

 

Metro Red Line, Absolutely correct. I too forgot I thought about the holiday weekend earlier. Very strange scheduling. Visit a deadend city on a holiday weekend? I don't think so. Jim

 

I gotta say, after reading this thread, and the one about the Trainboard upgrade, I'm amazed that people volunteer to do anything anymore, it truly is a thankless endeavor. The vast majority of the people involved in the planning of these conventions are unpaid, volunteering their time to do so, just like Charlie and crew volunteer their time to run this site. I've seen the Trainboard staff endure endless whining and crying over this upgrade, and this thread is full of griping and belly-aching about the timing and location of conventions. I guess all I can say is - don't like it? STEP UP and volunteer to do it differently.

Now, where's that "ignore" button, I need to add some people...

 

Regarding the Holiday Weekend, if memory serves, the NTS was often ON the July 4 weekend. I believe it was because hotel rates were the cheapest since few travelled then. They moved it a week a few years back. So, in a way, scheduling for cheap rates because no one likes to travel even the week after the holiday works both ways - Rates are cheap because fewer people want to go then.

 

Actually, yes. Because of the size of the country, they recognize that no place they put the show will be able to draw everyone. Even if you drop it smack in the middle, it won't pull the coasts in. So they achieve the effect by movign the show to a different state every year. I'd argue they might need a more uniform way to do it, as it's yet to be anyplace near me. But yes, we can call it a National, as it's on a national cuircuit.

I can relate to downsizing. When I temp'd in Amazon.com's warehouse, they went through their post-Christmas cuts. I watched them cut 5 people off a 6 man team on the outbound shipping process, with half of that cart of product still there. They left him to run the entire cart, packing it, getting its shipping info onto the box, and getting it onto the rollars to go to the trucks. And he did. Then they cut him too.

I want to ask one thing about those shows Jim, how many of the "good ones" are gone that weren't right next to each other date and place wise. If i just got some nifty new set from a show, I'm nto likely to hit the next weekend's show. That's one reason why I think Galesburg has done so well, how many train shows are around them? Plus, they had the draw from Railroad Days, though I think the show was more worth it than sitting in a BNSF cab, the yard tour was the real highlight of the 1:1.

The other thing that helped Galesburg, was the fact that the train show co-habitated with the toy show, Dad could drool on trains, kid could gawk at cars and action figures, and there were even things for the ladies to look at. That does help a lot.

 

Lets be honest here, the Anaheim convention was huge, because the Anaheim convention center is right next to DISNEYLAND.

"Hey honey, you want to pack up the kids, fly to LA and spend money on convention center hotels so I can play with my trains? No? Did I mention you and the kids can walk over to Disneyland? Or drive to the beach? Or the SDZoo? Oh, you like that? Good."

What does Sacramento have? It's a great railfan town, Perhaps none better, but what is there to do? Unless you drive to Tahoe or to the Bay area?
And the Central Valley in the Summer? Please. the NMRA lucked out with the weather. The town is in Shock this week that the California State fair is going to see 80 for a high the day it opens. It is unprecedented.
Heck, last year in Milwaukee?!? "Hey honey, can we go to Wisconsin in the Summer? No, not Door County, The Dells or any of the other places people actually want to go, I want to go to the Milwaukee convention center. Maybe the Miller Brewery tour." There's a fun family vacation.

I doubt NMRA will ever go to Vegas. It's too expensive and what tours are there to do? I mean, home tours and I assume clubs, but there's not much real railroading to see. Some UP and not much else.

As for small conventions. If they're held in appropriate sized venues and are tailored for maybe states or regions, they can do well.
I saw some decent N-scale stuff at the Train show. HO was more representative, but Atlas, Bachmann, Athearn, they had their N-scale stuff there. There were N-scale layouts. Big Z-scale presence, but that's no surprise.
I was a bit surprised by the amount of On30. I think it's the new trendy scale.

 

My 2 cents: I guess it depends on your interests as to whether a given convention is right for you. I've attended seven National Train Shows, three NMRA conventions, eight N scale conventions (two were joint with N Collector, three were joint with NMRA) and four National Narrow Gauge Conventions (NNGC).
The NMRA convention isn't for the N scale purist that only sees things in N scale. For instance, there was only one N scale specific clinic at Sacramento and that was Nn3. However I went to fourteen clinics and enjoyed all but one (the presenter wasn't very good). Mostly, these were prototype clinics on subjects I wanted to learn about: PFE, Packing houses, yard operations, the Central California Traction RR, three on the Sierra RR. The best clinic of all was called Aging, Eyes and Modeling. It was full of good information as my eyes grow older. The Layout tours I went on were all HO and larger but I still learned things and enjoyed them. I would say the majority of attendees were either retired or not far from it. lots of wheelchairs, canes and walkers. There were attendees from all over the US, Oz and Europe.
The National Train Show is mainly a place where manufacturers can show off their wares. As I commented in another thread, I found an HO company very receptive to testing the N scale market. He wouldn't have been at an N convention or probably not the NNGC. There were some notable absences including NCE and TCS. The layouts were mostly the same ones seen at the northern California train shows. But there were others as well that I wouldn't have seen elsewhere. The one that won for Best Modules was an HO layout from Edmonton, Alberta. Lots of lighting animation and very detailed scenes.

I like the NNGC for the way they are formatted. Clinics and vendor booths from 8am-noon and 7 -10pm. In between are the layout tours. Narrow gauge seems to attract a higher percentage of the better modelers.

General N scale conventions are a bit more variable. Some much better than others. Their have been typically two or three per year in the past; N Collector, N West and N East. Now that the collector bunch has copyrighted National N Scale Convention it has become a bit confusing to me. The N Collector convention format has been quite rigid with certain activities at certain times on certain days. I'm not into their activities as much. When they have been joint with the general N Scale population, I get what I want, they get what they want. The best was Louisville which managed to combine a general N Scale convention with the collector organization and a GTE Train Show. Everyone benefited.

So I guess it depends on what you want to get out of a convention. Kind of like the magazines. Model Railroader has a bit for everyone like the NMRA and NTS. Narrow Guage and Shortline Gazette for the NNGC folks. N Railroading and N Scale for the N Scalers.

 

Well you know, any convention at the Anaheim Convention Center is going to be huge. I believe it's the largest convention center building in the country. I attend a music instrument show (NAMM) every January, and the attendance this year was 90,000. Being across the street form Disneyland is a given, but also it's a chance for people in colder climates to enjoy sunny California days in this middle of January, plus all the Los Angeles/Hollywood attractions are just an hour away and San Diego isn't too far either. Not to mention the large population base that already lives here that can go to an event in the area. The Anaheim GTE show (also at the Anaheim Convention Center, but in a smaller hall) is perhaps GTE's largest and most profitable regular show.

 

This is a good point. We often get into this here, but N-scale has spent such a long time being the "under dog" and many n-scalers relish that and enjoy their camaraderie as a scale as much or more than as model railroaders. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just that it's a thing.

It seems particular to N-scale too. Z-scale doesn't seem to be this way. At the national train show last weekend, there were more Z-scale layouts shown than N. Now, given where microtrains is located and the sheer size of California, I guess we would have more Z scalers than elsewhere, but come on, you can't tell me there are more of them than N-scalers. Why weren't the n-scalers there? Did the Train Show folks tell em not to come?

It also could be demographics. You mentioned all the retirees. I'm not sure, but I would not be surprised if N-scale has a lot larger percentage of people that are still working and have less time freedom, even if they have a bit more money.

 

Well, NAMM benefits quite a bit from the fact that the Recording industry has a huge presence there too. Plus, you might get to see a real famous person, not "Model Railroading Famous."

 

Yes that's true (Although NAMM has a smaller convention in Nashville during the Summer (It's going on this week actually) that got about 12,500 attendees last year). They used to hold it in Chicago.
There are a number of famous people who are avid model railroaders...do they go to the conventions? Does the NMRA actively invite them?

 

Metro, I'm honestly not sure that's neecarily a good comparison. Famous folks go to NAMM because in some way, it's going to be job related. The train shows are a hobby, which fight for free time anyway. If you spend 6 months travelling, are you going to travel to a show or lock yourself in a basement. Ask Jason Shron what he's doing after the Canadian Tour. He wasn't in Sacramento, that's for sure.

One other one too, my other hobby is Transformers. You should recognize the name Frank Welker, even if your not a robot fan. He's yet to make it to the Botcon convention, not because he doesn't want too, but because he's never had the time. And that's almost as work related as NAMM.

 

The big Kahuna of train shows, is Springfield Mass., in late January, when the hobby is at its peak. Save your bucks and go to that one. Bradley Field airport is nearby, which makes it easy to get to.
Mark