HOn3...could it be for me?

So I'm lookin' at the latest Narrow Gauge and Shortline Gazette...specifically at the Blackstone Models article and ads and am wondering...should I go back to HO/ Specifically Hon3? Pros and cons would be welcome!!

 

HEY!! Where are all the HOn3ers out there to either talk me into or out of this??

 

Ever since On30 came out...whooossh....

But I like the little things. it's like n scale but with HO scale people!!

 

I made the jump 8 years ago...(or rather, the inverse of the jump you're considering ;-))

My understanding is that the Blackstone engines aren't quite as well detailed as the MMI, but that they are the finest running engines available in HOn3. The C-19 would be my pick if I were to go back...and use the mechanism to create a C&S 2-8-0.

Rio Grande models offers a nice line of trucks in HOn3. Grandt Line, of course, makes excellent kits (I built all of the C&S cars during my sophomore and junior years of high school). Rail line has built their D&RGW kits for years. PSC offers their line of kits as well (which did include a $400 C&S 2-6-0 kit) Labelle offers their cars as well.

The advantages are:
-HOn3 brass and diecast are (typically) cheaper than On3/On30 brass and diecast
-widest range of kits available
-more railroad in the same space
-works with HO structure kits
-Harry Brunk's work is HOn3

As I see it, the downsides are as follows:
-the locomotives are more expensive than B-man's On30 models (whether used stock or converted to On3).
-locomotives are legendary for not running well (this has never been the problem for people willing to do a little work on them...and I believe that the new engines are smooth).
-the appearance of the running gear has usually been below that of all larger scales
-typically, most people find it far less friendly for scratch building equipment than Sn3 or especially On3/On30.

If you are considering a move to HOn3, I'd recommend thinking about Sn3. If I was to leave O scale and couldn't go to F scale...I'd jump to either Sn3 or Nn3. I view HOn3 as an akward scale: not really large enough for me to enjoy the benefits of HO or Sn3, but not really having a great advantage over Nn3 (in my eyes). Of course, HOn3 is the most traditional of the n3s and many fine layouts have been built in it. I believe it is rather rare to go from another narrow gauge to HOn3...but common to switch from HOn3 to Sn3, On3, or Nn3 (and probably On30 as well!).

I believe that Sn3 flex track is around $2 per foot. Turnouts are comparable to SJCC's On3 turnouts. The rolling stock kits are inbetween HOn3 and On3 in price...and Grandt Line has done the tooling (which means that they are high quality) on at least some of the freight cars for P-B-L. I view motive power as being Sn3's downside...price and a lack of power that I'd want.

If you leave 1:48, I hope you'll keep at least some of your On30 to operate with your boys. I feel that selling models on the cheap to buy new can bring regrets.

Michael

 

Well, it is a somewhat whimsical idea on my part. I do have all of my HO structures so that would not be a problem, even some old MDC rolling stock I could put on HOn3 trucks...BUT I have really invested in On30 and like the look and feel of the larger models. I suspect I will likely stay in O scale but may choose On3 over On30 in the long run. HOn3 has always interested me though. I have stayed away from it mainly due to cost and the legendary poor performance of the motive power. Still, those Blackstone models look real good...

 

Hey, wondered where you were...hope your troubles were not serious?

As for us, well, we are still living at our office (ughh) and progress on the house is slow. Fighting with our insurance company and paying lawyer fees...but all will be well eventually.

 

I think it is really Blackstone who has given HOn3 a major boost. With MMI having been a bit ahead as far as engines are concerned. But those Blackstone freight cars are really just amazing. On the other hand, Micro-Trains (not Kadee) somehow went into a direction without mass potential. And trying to fit those cars into the "mass" market, like their recent flat car, just does not help the hobby.

With respect to the engines, I think Blackstone and MMI have a similar standard on their K-27. Each of them has ist ups and downs, but they both run very well, and they both look tremendous. And that includes the running gear in both of them. MMI is less flexible, all their original models are based on the same prototype. Thus, my 463 is lacking the rear light. On the other hand, Blackstone has no "wires" connecting the bell and steam whistle with the cab. But the over all impression is equally exquisite for both models, as far as I am concerned. Blackstone has the advantage of functional front couplers, thus allowing double heading, pushers, or mid-train helpers.

I would never switch to Nn3. That scale may have a certain neatness appeal, but if one considers HOn3 to be on the smallish side, Nn3 simply does not allow the detailing that makes HOn3 steam engines still great looking. I have a few of the Micro-Trains freight cars, and the problems already start with the wrongly placed lettering. The road name is right above the windows on the cabooses, instead of right under the roof.

 

Eek! 57 is not old enough to go be in that situation.

Glad you are recovering.

We had an incredible experience this past fall. My wife was laid off on a friday and then we had $6000 storm damage to our house that weekend. The following Friday I told the Chinese students in our Bible study that God would take care of us...and we ended up receiving around $7000 unexpectedly. Part was the insurance company telling us to keep the extra $3500 once the repairs were completed.

 

:tb-shocked:

Ken I hope your are okay?

 

You should sereouselyconsider moodeling in On30 scale, It is a booming scale for narrow gauge and there are many companys coming out with new, more affordable locomotives and rolling stock for example American Model Supply, Mountain Model Imports, and San Juan Car Co. and also you dont have to worry about getting expensive hard to find track, you can just use normal HO track and just incase you do end up getting into On30, i have a friend who owns a train shop that can get you just about any On30/On3 item on the market for a low price too. You can see his website at (www.i-sng.com)

 

I am debating jumping into On 30 or 3 I havent decided. I am going to go 30 for now I think because of price and availability. Or is there a pro con here I am missing?

Might proto lance C&S Kountry line or the Golden line( loved them both when I was out there training) so who knows.!

 

Well, I can see from your avatar that you are also a C & S fan! I have been modeling On30, C & S for several years. Every now and then I get a wold hair and start thinking of changing scale (again!) but in the end I decide I am just having too much fun with On30 to change...

 

All of the motive power available in On30 can be regauged to On3. The converse isn't as easy. Any rollingstock available for one can be converted to the other with a swap of trucks or wheelsets.

The downside to On3 is that the cheap stuff (B-man) requires some work to get it into service (regauged). The downside to On30 is that it might not look right to you...and by the time you have nice looking track, you've exerted the $$$/effort that On3 track would have required.

As far as curves, some people claim that On3 requires broader curves. This is half true. The equipment for On30 is usually designed to allow it to take tighter curves. The ability to take curves is related to the rigid wheelbase and the tolerances. A C&S SUF car with On30 wheelsets won't be able to negotiate as tight of curves as if it had On3 wheelsets...but on the converse, some steam locomotives in On30 can negotiate tighter curves than in On3 due to the pilot truck hitting the cylinders.

Now On3(0) vs. Sn3 vs. HOn3 is another animal entirely. I originally started off planning to model the C&S in HOn3. I found that the equipment was too small for me. Then B-man released their pseudo #22 and I decided to switch to On3 and regauge a #22. If it wasn't for the commercial offerings of On3(0), as well as the insanse Sn3 prices, I'd have gone with Sn3.

Michael

 

I agree on the Sn3 being insane pricewise. I am not so sure I am adept at regauging so On30 might just be where I wind up.

I am a "good enough" modeler really( from 10 feet that looks good enough lol). Not too much of a nit picker but I do want things to look good.If its not 100% accurate I am not going to lose too much sleep.

As for being a C&S fan, I worked for the Big New Super Fast railroad and went to Denver to get my engineer card. I worked C&S lines North and the Kountry branch and Golden branch. So I became a HUGE fan of the old C&S.I thought about doing HO scale With Cheyenne,Speer,Ft Collins,Loveland, and longmont for sure. These were my favorite areas of the Front Range.I was going to do it 1940 ish so to be mostly steam and toss in a few troop trains along with beet trains.But oh well I might just go the On30 route and stick to NG Its all a toss up you know?

 

What era of the C&S are you interested in? You can break it down into 3 main categories:

Early...the first decade or so
Mid...teens and early twenties
Modern...around 1930 to 1943

Early on, the lines were all intact and a mix of inherited and modern freight cars were on the roster...plus nearly all of the conventional 2-6-0s and 2-8-0s...but the obsolete ones didn't last long.

During the mid period, the lines became isolated, the inherited cars were gone, various spark arrestors were tried, and many older locomotives were purged.

The modern period is what most people think of when you say C&Sng. C&S #22 is gone early in this period (the closest locomotive to the B-man mogul). The B-4-Fs (#74-76) are primarily used on the Climax line. The B-4-Es (#71-73) were primarily used on the former Colorado Central. The B-3-Cs (eg. #4-10) were the primary passenger power. B-4-D became an oil burner at this time. The modern paint scheme came into being.

The modern freight cars are commonly classified as being Type I, Type II, or Type III. The C&S only distinguished the Type III as being different (SUF, for steel underframe). Type I were wood with archbar trucks. Type II were wood with Betterndorf hardware. Type III were wood with SUFs and Betterndorf Hardware. The reefers were all Type III.

John and I will probably put together a tutorial for building Type I cars (specifically a coal car) at some point in the future...and post it on here.

San Juan Car Co, Wiseman Model services, and Grandt Line offer accurate C&S cars. Model Masterpieces also offered some many years ago.

Of course, B-man or building your own cars is the cheapest road. Accurately modeling the C&S is quite easy if you can afford a number of kits and brass power.

Also, beware of the AMS cars. They are fine models...but they are NOT C&S cars despite the paint. If the B-man cars are close enough for you, then the AMS cars are fine. (the AMS are closer to modern C&S cars than the B-man are to early cars...even though the B-man cars carry modern lettering) It is certainly fine if your purchase the cars knowing that, but it isn't cool when a manufacturer tricks you into buying their product.

G-M-E offers wood kits for C&S combine #20 and coach #70. Combine #20 was a unique car used mostly on mixed trains. Coach 70 was one of the modern St. Charles/AC&F 1st class coaches. They are definitely a misfit pair, but pretty cool regardless. B-man's single door baggage is passable for one of the C&S cars prior to 1906 (of course it is painted for the popular 1930s!)


4 Grandt Line kits...one Model Masterpieces kit...and a B-man 2-6-0 converted to On3 and wearing a PSC Ridgeway Spark Arrestor.

I have a thread from building the coal car:
Building a Grandt kit - TrainBoard.com

Michael