Hi everyone! Now that there is a name and color scheme for the railway, TransAlberta Rail. i need your input for the track plan. The room size is 18.5' x 20'. i wanted a walk around layout and all switches are remote and attached to the facia across from the switches. The outer loop only crosses over to the inner loop at the North end (top of page). It also is switched to go into the harbour. i'm using it to only run a train around when there are visitors and i like the looks of a double line . The inner loop is the mainline and is tied into everything. At the bottom left of the page S.W. corner is the harbour, than yards and city which is the larger peninsula. The whole area is 5" high. The tracks that run along all the walls are also 5" high. The smaller peninsula is a small town. i considered that area to be prairie or farm land. Its at 0" elevation. The N.W. corner to be hills and lumber. Along the east wall and S.E. corner loop is all mountains, with a coal mine and a ski resort So i hope u can invision the layout. i feel i have too much track in the S.E. corner and i have to shorten some of the track in the city yard in the S.W. corner for starters. Any comments will be much appeciated After all the track work is done than i will add the scenery. [ 24. November 2002, 18:12: Message edited by: railery ]
That plan is really hard to follow. Could you post a bigger copy, preferabley with just a single line on the track and any bridges or tunnels marked?
I would be inclined to reduce the switching in the two loops and leave it for scenery. Instead, I would sneek some switching in other areas. Especially the third (higher - heading north from south) loop. You could build it fairly high with mountains or structures to use it for a view block for the layout behind it. Looks like a pretty good track plan to me. Looks like a keeper. [ 21. November 2002, 18:30: Message edited by: rsn48 ]
OK, overall plan and scheme looks fine. But here are some things I notice you will want to chew over before building, starting at the SE corner and moving clockwise. 1. The yard on the lowest peninsula. It is heavily curved and looks cramped. You might have trouble switching on these curves, and it's all stub as well, which isn't ideal, though is both workabel and prototypical at times. I think if I had to change it.... I'd put the yard in the center of that peninsula. That of course means less room for a town, but.... It's going to be a compromise either way, so it's up to which you'd rather have a large town scene, or a better functioning yard. Also, add a set of crossovers somewhere in this vicinity, so trains can get onto the outer loop easier. While you might only use the outer loop for continuous running, you may also want to use it as a double track system. Might as well stick in a crossover so you can have that option without tearing out precious hours of scenery later. 2. Second peninsula town. You've got a bunch of switchbacks and googaw and track. You can fit more everything in if you use fewer longer simpler tracks. (Also, fewer turnouts = less time & cost.) I'd streamline the tracks a little, you will end up with a higher overall capacity, and room for maybe some bigger industries than you have now. 3. Righthand wall area. Basically the same as the previous, those switchbacks may be more pain than they are worth. If you had room for one or two train-length yard tracks here that would be a plus, but not absolutely required. === Overall a nice design, no doubt as you build you will find things that look better in 3D and make changes. It seems that track plans never end up built exactly as first laid out.... Good luck on the project. I envy your space!
i colored the plan to hopefully make it easier. Hi Paul, i hope this plan is a little better. The tunnels are marked and rivers are shown. i am revising the plan already but your comments are still appreciated. I may be able to get a single line plan out. Thanks rsn48, i kinda agree with u. What i need to do is clean up the coal area, town and city yard. Its a keeper alright Thats why i'm coming to the board for advice from Y'all. From the layout name to the cutting of the ribbon its like everyone will be a part of it. Hi Abcraghead. Yea i wish i could have a straighter yard, with an entrance at each end. The curve is the only place i can see for it. The harbor will take the brunt of the yard though because i will be building a 3 track car ferry that will roll up to the layout. 2. Yep got to get rid of the googaw i don't worry about cost because my old layout had over 60 switches and 500+' of track. i have most everything for this layout and once built, will have a sell off of all the extra kits. 3. Done Exactly, the plan often changes during construction. But i'm going to try and stay true blue to the plan. The room is bigger than the dimensions. But at the bottom of the plan i will have the couch and tv so i can relax and watch train videos Okay i will redo some of this plan to get it working. i will post the revised plan. Thanks to Y'all. [ 22. November 2002, 04:14: Message edited by: railery ]
Pretty good. You've got a lot closer, I only have three tweeks, two of which are operations oriented, one of which is just visual. 1.) Yard & Harbor. A shorter route from the yard to the harbor would be of use. As it is now, pulling cars out of the harbor and up to the yard is no prob, but pulling them from the yard and putting them in the harbor involves a long back up move. This might be too complex... it might intimidate even me! But... you could have the yard spill out onto a yard lead, (which would blend into that siding just south of the tunnel on the left,) and then have a track take off heading south, crossing over both mains at grade, and then into the harbor. 2. Town peninsula, (yellow area,) in between those two tracks on the staightaway, consider instaling a crossover. That way either line can switch the town. 3.) Cosmetic only -- I'd remove the tunnel in the upper left corner. It's more that I just don't think it's required. But it is up to you, since this is a visual thing. BTW what are your plans scenically? I am assuming the yellow area is the wheat interior of Alberta, the green areas the mountains, and the orange areas is the Pacific coast?
Hey Greg, The second plan is a lot cleaner looking, not so jumbled, I like it. You seem to have the same problem as me. I always start out a plan with as much track as I can possibly get on the bench work, then I slowly remove bits and pieces till it all comes together. Good job!!!!!
Hi Andy i agree! As Paul said the first plan was really hard to follow, but after being in the chopping block its taken shape. Alex, i added a curved turnout to the yard. Three yard tracks will be storage and the 4th for set up. It also provides for a runaround, i like it 2.) i only want that outside line for show. So i don't want too many switches on it. Anyway the inner loop won't be able to run those 89' cars, where the outer loop should be able too. 3.) if i removed that tunnel there could'nt be a lake and forest. It also provides as scene divider. I'm not modeling a specific route, like Calgary to Vancouver. But i love big city buildings, harbors, forests, mountains, rolling prairies and desert like terrain. i have alot of pictures of the landscape between Cal & Van from the Rockie Mountaineer Rail Trip. The scenery was beautiful and majestic. i hope to achieve that on the layout. [ 24. November 2002, 21:46: Message edited by: railery ]
Cool! But you said that the outside line can handle 85 footers, but the inside can't? So what are the minimum radii fo each line?
Okay i think we got it, 6 revisions later i added an extra gravel track and to engine tracks for fueling and sanding. i can't believe i forgot that. The inner loop's radius minimum is 22". The out loop is about 26", maybe 27". If u notice i tried to smooth the curves out more. Also there is a hidden staging hard running under the station and around to the top of layout (lumber area) i never showed it because it would cause confusion. The staging yard uses the tunnel that goes under the train station. So what do ya think Does this plan have it??? [ 25. November 2002, 04:41: Message edited by: railery ]
I love the idea, very sweet indeed. If I had the space, that is very similar to what I would build!!! I have been thinking about the City area, as that seems to be the most troubling part. I took into consideration the space allowed in the area due to scenery. Right now, I personally feel the scenery will be cramped. The line running along the wall out of the city is at the same elevation as the Harbor and the center where you labeled scyscrapers. I can understand wanting them there as a scene but it might be better to move the turntable into that area by turning it around aout 85 degrees, nestling it with the tracks on the island closest to the docks, the "inside tracks" and move the freight yard to the point you have labeled "City" along the back wall. This will give you more staging area and allow you space to model a harbor scene that is acessible to cars and trucks that serve the city. It also gives the stub yard an extra purpose, the staging yard for bigger ships that can dock in te deep harbor waters. The "large ship area" isn't on the map, it is the area directly south of the ferry dock otherwise known as "not on the map." The only drawback that I see is you might have to deal with a long reach into an area that has a lot of traffic, over high buildings. However, the tracks in the yard will be much straighter, so derailments *SHOULD* be less of a problem. The ends of the yard should be within reach, if something does go wrong, and I would think that is where they would go wrong first. If you still want more area for the Skyscrapes, you could put a sublayer over half the yard, the half that is near the wall and nearest the station, and do a little city tunnel/ night/lights modeling. This would also put the "dirtier" yards on level away from the valuable real estate of the skyscrapers. In the area that is now the yard,you could then put in industrial buildings such as bakeries, canneries, textile mills, transfers, small factories, and such city buildings that require a simple spur. The spur would then be a single track where you have the freight yard. This line would be limited to small power like Docksides, Shifters, 44 tonners, SW-1xxx, and the like with mainline connections to the yards for ease of car movements. The switchers will have to clear the line quickly, as not to create a disturbance to mainline traffic. If you do put in the city sublayer over half the yard, these "dirtier" industries would be further away from the populus that live in the skyscrapers...a real estate thing. You might check the elevation of the docks, I cannot tell if yellow is higher then orange, because that makes sense one way but not the other. Whether or not you can use any of this, this is your layout and your fun! Enjoy the layout!!!! It is going to be magnificent. When I do mine, it will be running from California docks to Arizona Mountains. [ 25. November 2002, 06:46: Message edited by: Benny ]
Hi everyone I'm real happy that i shared my ideas with u. i think the plan looks fantastic, and all the little bugs are worked out. Its' very simple with just enough switching. i can reach all the track areas at arms length. The minimum isle space is 2' (30" is better but u got to give up some space). The layout will lend itself to some awesome scenery. Tall skyscrapers, floor to ceiling mountains, rolling hill scenery and lots of water. Hi Alex, thanks for all your input The plan looks great. In the fall of 2003 construction should start Hi Benny. Those are good ideas thankyou. The reason for the skyscrapers, the kits i have stand 2.5' tall, in the middle because i don't need to touch them . They make a good divider too. i wanted to have access to all the track. Even the tunnels i can reach to underneath the bench. In the city the yellow portion of track is going down/up, that is why the freight yard is where it is. i want everything to be flat as possible. i didn't plan the harbor and engine facility to be so close but i have the cornerstone harbor series so i need room for the models. i still can expand the harbor down the wall for another 6' if necessary. All i would have to do is move the couch i do have a 44 tonner for the dock and ferry area AND as for the populace, they better like trains.
No problem, Railery! I only have a small space for a layout, so I love designing and helping others design their layouts, it lets me experience other eras and locales vicariously!
Looking back at your plan, have you thought about the width of your aisles? It looks like you have a few places where the aisle width gets down to only 18". You may have already thought about this and have considered it a trade off for more layout. On the other hand, skinny aisles can be a bottleneck for operators. Unless, of course, you plan to operated solo. Then, it may not matter much to you. Just an observation, your mileage may vary.
Hi Mike. in the picture it looks like its less than 2' but on the RTS original plan it shows 2'. i wanted 29 or 30" for isle space but settled for 24". When the bench work goes up i will try to get as much isle space as i can. i am the only one running the layout but if guests do run it, it should make for interesting passing Thanks for your comments , isle space is important for what u want to do
A couple of things that I can see that will give you problems. You need a lead track to work the yard. As it is now you will fouling the main line each time you try to work the yard. Can you get rid of the stub ended freight yard, and straighten the yard out also. Real yards are MOST of the time double ended. With a curved yard you will have trouble trying to get cars to couple together. You need more crossover tracks between your main lines. What is the use of having a second main line if you are not going to use it? The 2ft aisle space is too tight. You need a minimum of 3ft and that is cutting it close. I wouldn't have one line that is able to run long cars and one line not able to. Sooner or later you will want to run long cars where you want and not have too worry about which line they are on. Check you radius, 22" is way too short for a layout like you have the idea for. You will have a big area, but will not be able run longer trains and cars without tracking problems. Don't get too hung up on the "minimum radius BS" use as big of a radius as you can everywhere. Always use EASEMENTS when going from a tangent track to a curve. They make trackwork flow from one direction to another. How close are your curves on the main line to the edge of the benchwork? From the drawings the curves seem to be right on the edge of the layout. This can get awful hard on the rolling stock, when it takes a jump off the track and goes over the edge of the layout! It will happen!---Was missing a couple of engines. Looked all over the layout, couldn't find them anywhere. Looked on the floor, there was 2 of the 3, looked at the dog. "What do you have in your mouth girl?" Well at least she brought the engine back to me! Keep those tracks off the edge of the layout. What is the FARTHEST you will have to reach across the layout to pickup derailed trains? A reach over 2ft is asking for trouble. A 3ft reach can be okay, but any more is not kosher! Ain't nothing in the world like the feeling you get when you have to reach all the way across the layout to get your derailed KATO steamer, and you put your hand through the scenery, all the way up to your shoulder! The only thing I didn't do was fall through the layout! I think that you are trying to put a bit much into your layout. With the room that you said you had available, the fact that you are in HO (I am in N-Scale), you might be able to mix big city buildings, harbors, forests, mountains, rolling prairies, and desert like terrain. But it seems to me you would be crowding different areas too much, and too close together. The transition from one area to another could be real hard to pull off realistically. If you can get your hands on the KALMBACH PUBLISHING book "TRACK PLANNING FOR REALISTIC OPERATION" by John Armstrong, check it out. This book shows a lot of different traps that we all fall into when we design a new layout.
Hi Mark U said it all for what to look outfore. These are all those things to keep in mind, unfortunately in HO scale space is a dilema, but i had a large layout before and with this new one i corrected all the problems of the old one. On the old layout i had a 13" walk through U sure had to suck in i found that slope is the killer. So i tried to stay under 3% for the steepest and 2% for the average. Also try to have at least 9" before a grade to place your turnout (HO). If not u may have a coupler problem. Space if we only had more
