HO Steam on a tiny layout?

Are there any decent-running HO steam locos that will take a 15" radius curve? (Please don't tell me to make my curves bigger; the layout has to fit on a 36"-wide door.) My Athearn SW-1000 takes the curves like a champ, but I'd like to have a steamer for crowd-pleasing purposes, and I don't want one that will hiccup and stall every three feet.

 

respecting your request
but also noting that with flex track you could expand to 17" radius on a 36" wide door, a 2" gain which could make a lot of difference
i think you will find most steam with a lead and trailing truck will be the most problematic as the drivers usually have the edge removed on those which would get hung up on curved track
my suggestion would be to check for the 0-6-0 or 2-6-0 that has the best rating as recommended by those who own them
i myself never had success with steam on 15" radius, but a 0-6-0 did best (at that time and place the 0-6-0 was made by a company that did not make good runners...do not even remember what company it was, being over 20 years ago.
best wishes!
Gary

 

I use a 4-4-0 American on my layout which is all 15" radius. No problems. I would think the 2-6-0 would work. It also has a bit better pulling power, but I wouldn't go to 2-8-0 without a concrete testimonial in this thread from someone. Jim

 

Fifteen inches is well under the current designated practical minimum for main line steam in HO. Whereas it was 18" in John Armstrong's day, many would argue that it is closer to 22" these days due to the improved fidelity to prototypes with details that make the grossly flexible final drives of yesteryear impossible. Things that were molded on in the 60's, or weren't there at all, are now there on RTR rolling stock, and the trailing and pilot trucks on steamers equipped with them make contact with those finer and more numerous details on curves near 18".

Main line steam went from a 0-4-0 all the way up to a 4-12-2 over a 100 year period, plus the longer articulated engines. Street cars, dock-siders, small switcher engines of the 0-4-0 would be fine, but even a 0-6-0 might balk at 15". Personally, I would want to check it out for myself before I ordered or purchased one. A local hobby shop can set up a length of flex on their counter with 15" curves and power up the rails to test any of the earlier and smaller steamers. I would guess that a Pacific class 4-6-2 with 76" drivers and above would be hard-pressed. I don't believe even a Marklin eight-coupled engine could negotiate 15" curves, and they are well engineered for tight curves on smaller European layouts.

 

Cke 1st, the problem with so many of today's hobbyists is their obsession with huge steam locomotives that are honestly both inapproprate and impractical, to say nothing about unrealistic looking, running on 90% of the layouts radii found amongst hobbyists currently.

If one is limited to 15" radii curves on their layout logic dictates that they should model a RR situation appropriate to the small equipment suited to it. Years ago, when layouts with small radii were the absolute norm, it was well known that 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 switchers and small industrial locomotives by Mantua, Varney and English all worked perfectly on them. In fact, several manufacturers illustrated their ads with their smaller engines negotiating loops as small as 4" to 6". I believe that Mantua, or Varney, even showed one of their 0-4-0's circling a segment of tackage whose inner rail was the rim of a silver dollar!

Too many of today's hobbyists have forgotten (or never even knew about) what was appropriate and possible, along with how practical, very small layouts are if one uses the appropriate motivepower on them. Given that thought, I would venture that a number of the better quality short wheelbased locomotives offered today will have no difficulty whatever negotiating your 15" radii curves. As suggested above, I would even tend to expect that Bachmann's recent 2-6-0 likely would work as well GIVEN THAT YOU DO A QUALITY JOB IN TRACK LAYING. Conversely, long wheelbase locomotives, and even most 0-8-0's will end up giving you nothing but frustration on 15" radii. Smoothness, evenness and pefect rail joints are always the key here to having whatever locomotives and rollingstock you choose operate well on really small layouts.

So, try to design a layout around the concept of some industrial situation, urban switching configuation, or minor backwoods branchline demanding small, third class or otherwise cast-off/limited service motive power, linked to 36' freight cars and say a single truncated old 50' passenger car and you should have a pleasant and satisfying time operating your railroad.


NYW&B

 

Do you have pictures of this layout, or is it just in the planning stage?

The life like switchers were short wheel base locos. I bet those could do it and they are very detailed, but I'm not sure about the coupler on the tender since it's fixed.

Is your rolling stock equipped with body mounted or truck mounted couplers?

 

Traingeekboy:
The layout is under construction, temporarily on hold while I wait for some re$ource$ to arrive. I'm using standard body-mount couplers, and I had no issues at all on some temporary track, even with short shanks (I confess this surprised me).

NYW&B:
The layout is a short branch line serving a pharma plant and a team track/loading dock. All rolling stock is 40' or less. A switch engine is all I really need, but I've had my fill of cheap, bad-running steamers, which (judging by the prices) seems to include most of the steam switchers on the market. The 2-6-0 intrigues me.

 

If you can find a Proto 2000 Heritage Series (or Walthers' version of) 0-6-0, they are marvellous little switchers. They are light, so don't expect miracles if you have grades exceeding about 2.5%, but they are exquisitely detailed and smooth movers.

 

Yep, Crandell picked the best damn short wheel base loki you can find. I have the 0-8-0, but the 0-6-0 is a real looker. The detail will make your jaw drop, the slow speed performance will make you check to make sure it's plugged in. Best of all It's DCC ready.

 

I'm going to concur with the Heritage 0-6-0 suggestion. Pricey? yes. Beautiful? Yep. Operates smoothly? Oh yeah.

I had the pleasure of operating one while working second trick yard master at an operating session. Oh that little thing was beautiful and ran even better. I think the owner managed to sneak some extra weight into it as I had no problems dragging a cut of 20 hoppers, up a hump, out to an a/d track.

 

Seeing as this is the HO scale forum we will ignore the interloper just kiddin' bremner.

Actually, It sounds like he just wants to add a steam train to his HO scale layout. I would be inclined to suggest N scale myself if space was the issue and the layout still needed building. 15" curves in N would be very do-able.

 

I have a couple of original Varney Docksiders that work well on less than 12" radius (of which I still have almost a full circle of, Atlas, no less).
Mantua big and little sixes (0-6-0, saddle tank and tender), Athearn 0-6-0 and 0-4-2T, John A. English 0-4-0 Yardbird, Mantua 0-4-0 Booster (make sure you find the die cast shell version for weight), and yet, I think, 50 years ago we ran out Version 2 Mantua Mikadoes on 15" and 18" with no operational issues.
I have an old Rivarossi Heisler that'll do less than 15" all day long.

Small steam is out there, I would say easy to find.
Me? If I need another engine, I never, as in ever, look at new production.

I have more fun with the older units!
Dave

 

I would dearly love to see some pics of that old stuff Dave.

 

Ah. Need to dig out the camera.
I have some shots, not very good, of as-received.
I'll get some more......probably after the holidays.
One good one is this of a pre-1949 Varney Super Mikado, all die cast, all sprung, including Central Valley six-wheel tender trucks, which in all these decades, somehow I had never seen before.
I've got three Old Lady consolidations, three Version 2 Mantua Mikados (with enclosed gearbox on frame and die cast cabs and tender), my last "new" purchase (in 1970) a Mantua Big Six, a Mantua 4-8-0, 0-4-0 Booster, Englisg 0-4-0, couple of Varney docksiders, MDC 0-6-0 saddle tank, Mantua General (now there's a good one for small layouts) at least, plus some old diseasemals, a Varney switcher, several (many?) F-3's, A and B, Penn Line mini diesel, Atheran dual-geared Geep.

 

Lionel 0-6-0, Mantua Big Six, 0-6-0.

Mantua die cast "Booster, MDC 0-6-0T, and a POS Lima, Italy (Rivarossi? AHM?) unit.

 

Plastic shelled Mantua 0-4-0T saddle tanker, pair of original Varney 0-4-0T Docksiders, and an Athearn 0-4-2T Lil' Monster.

 

John A. English 0-4-0 "Yardbird", Mantua 4-8-0 and "General (tender motor)

 

Varney "Old Lady" 2-8-0, Varney die cast diesel switcher.
Athearn dual-geared Geep, only did this for a year or two before going to plastic snap-together drives.