High Speed Talgo Set Derails in Spain

LegomanBill Jul 25, 2013

  1. LegomanBill

    LegomanBill TrainBoard Member

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  2. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Video footage shows that the lead coach directly behind the power car was the first to derail.

    http://www.cnn.com/
     
  3. Flash Blackman

    Flash Blackman Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Impressive. The coach almost looked like it became airborne.
     
  4. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Whoa. The down side of such speeds.... :( Sure looked like something happened to that car following the power unit. Couldn't really see the track that well, but I am wondering about such construction as superelevation on the curve. Looked rather flat to me. I wonder if our media will get us an investigation report...?
     
  5. LegomanBill

    LegomanBill TrainBoard Member

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    Well, I can tell you that one coach became airborne as it ended up on the road on top of the embankment next to the tracks.

    One does wonder why the train was going so fast in a low speed zone, I'm sure though that it didn't help the fact that the cars are articulated and have only two axles.
     
  6. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Am hearing radio news reports that speed was indeed the cause.
     
  7. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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  8. Seated Viper

    Seated Viper TrainBoard Member

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    News reports over here say the driver has admitted going too fast.

    Regards,

    Pete Davies
     
  9. N-Jineer

    N-Jineer TrainBoard Member

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    Latest from Spain is the Interoir Minister has said the Driver has been taken into custody accused of the "Reckless Manslaughter" of 78 people.

    1 of the dead victims wasn't even on the train - she was out walking her dog and was hit by the coach that flew up the embankment.
     
  10. jhn_plsn

    jhn_plsn TrainBoard Supporter

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    In looking at the video it looks like the loco bumps upward very slightly, but stayed on the tracks then the following car derailed on the same spot. I wish I could slow the video to see more.
     
  11. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    I am wondering if this might prompt installation of even more cameras, and even if that is not the case, keep the drivers more cautious knowing they will be observed.
     
  12. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    I heard somewhere, possibly here, that Spain has a system similar to PTC, and that this train was equipped with it. What I read indicated that this system is compartmentalized into districts where an equipped train is handed-off from one district to the next. Apparently there have been instances in the past where the inter-district hand-off had problems and drivers have had to take over manually until the system recovered and resynchronized itself. Not hearing of this situation since got me wondering if management may be making the driver a scapegoat, rather than admit a system malfunction and have the public lose faith in railroad safety....?
     
  13. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Always possible.
     
  14. N-Jineer

    N-Jineer TrainBoard Member

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    From the BBC News Site: " Spanish Derailment: Possible Causes"

    "With a system such as the European Train Control System (ETCS), a driver would not be able to break the speed limit.
    While parts of Spain's rail network - including a large section of the route the train had travelled from Madrid - do have the ETCS in operation, the curve where Wednesday's derailment took place relies on a less sophisticated safety system known as ASFA.
    ASFA - Anuncio de Senales y Frenado Automatico or signal notification and automatic braking - relies on a series of beacons to communicate with the driver's cab - so does not have the constant communication of ETCS.
    The system gives audio and visual warnings to the driver if speed limits are surpassed, and will step in and brake the train if there is no response from the cab."

    "The type of train involved came into service within the last two years. As well as being able to travel on both gauges in use in Spain, it is powered by a hybrid unit which can run off both electricity and diesel. This means it can be used for high speed services that start off on AVE lines and then continue on to towns and cities not served by the AVE network.

    The train would have left Madrid on high speed AVE track, before moving onto standard Iberian gauge track at Olmedo.
    At Ourense the train would have rejoined the AVE network, travelling towards Santiago on a newly constructed section of track which has the advanced train control system.
    However the derailment occurred at the point where the high speed track transitions to using part of the older railway network. Some experts are asking whether this transition could have been part of the problem."

    "The accident took place on the A Grandeira curve, which is just after a tunnel and follows around 80km of more or less straight track.
    A video posted on El Pais's website shows the curve as the train emerges from the tunnel.
    Spanish journalist Miguel Murado told the BBC that there had been concerns about the bend since the line opened two years ago.
    "People who travelled in the train felt that it was dangerous that the train had to go from 200km/h to 80km/h in just a matter of seconds," he said.
    "They felt that was a very difficult manoeuvre for the driver to execute.""
     
  15. Hytec

    Hytec TrainBoard Member

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    Steve, thank you for this. It definitely shows that what I offered was based on too little information, causing misinformation.
     

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