SOU High noose engines: why???

Thieu Jan 11, 2007

  1. Thieu

    Thieu TrainBoard Member

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    Why did Southern buy engines with high nooses? What was the reason?
     
  2. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    I believe that because they were running long hood forward, there was no need for a low short hood. Maybe they had very tall trainmen who did not like to duck down to get into the toilet area. ;)
     
  3. Thieu

    Thieu TrainBoard Member

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    But they also ordered high versions of standard low nose engines. Manufacturers had to build these especially for Southern.
     
  4. Dave Jones

    Dave Jones TrainBoard Supporter

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    I had to put this together from several friends of mine who worked for the Southern Railway back in the '60's, so I'm trying to repeat several sources put together and I'm not entirely sure of the accuracy of this because the official, corporate version was that this was a "safety" concern - more mass in front of a crew, should certainly help in case of a collision.

    And, in fact, it seems to me that Southern won that Harriman Safety Award many years in a row.

    But another, perhaps as compelling reason was that Southern management considered a diesel-electric as a bi-directional machine - running as well backwards as forward. Turning a unit to where the cab was always ahead (as in the case of F-units) required facilities (wyes, turntables, etc.) which caused an expense, as well as the time (i.e. money) taken to properly orient each leading or trailing unit properly.

    I'm not entirely certain of this, but it seems that some Union contracts with the various railroads, actually called for this. Hence, low-nosed units needed to be oriented differently. Perhaps some "old head" with BofLE could enlighten us on this matter.

    I really don't know Norfolk & Western's take on this, but it seems they had real early use of dual-controlled engines, as opposed to Southern.
     
  5. bierbass

    bierbass TrainBoard Supporter

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    I'd also heard that it was for union reasons: that a high short hood would require a larger crew since there was no wind shield allowing greater visibility.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 12, 2007
  6. r_i_straw

    r_i_straw Mostly N Scale Staff Member

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    I think it had to do with aesthetics. Long hood forward with a low short hood is just plain goofy. It ain't right.[​IMG] As long at the manufacurers offered the option in their catalog, railroads like Southern and Norfolk & Western kept buying them.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. Flash Blackman

    Flash Blackman TrainBoard Member

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    To slightly digress...I thought the long hood forward was because that's the way it had always been done, i.e., steam engines run that way. If you are running the long hood is forward, what difference does it make whether the short hood is high or low?
     
  8. Triplex

    Triplex TrainBoard Member

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    In 1953, the Southern became the so-far-largest railroad to eliminate steam; in 1960, the N&W became the last major railroad to do so. Yet both of them followed the long-hood-forward practice.

    In fact, when Southern absorbed the original Norfolk Southern, they actually converted its GP38s to high-nose configuration! This was the only such case in history.
     
  9. Dave Jones

    Dave Jones TrainBoard Supporter

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    AFAIK when first Baldwin, then ALCO offered the first road switchers in ~1947, all of them were set up to run "long hood forward" - basic steam era style. Again, AFAIK, no Baldwin road switchers and very few of ALCO's RS series were set up "short hood forward".

    When EMD first introduced the GP in 1949, most railroads, including Southern, bought "short hood forward". Notable exceptions (that I remember) were Great Northern, New York Central, and Pennsylvania who continued "long hood" as front.

    Believe that Southern Pacific bought the first low-noses in 1959 (GP-9's) which were short hood front. However, the second buyer (?) Phelps-Dodge, BA&P (?), ran the units long end first! This, for a better view back over the train.

    Again AFAIK, the first four motor Southerns with the long hood designated F for "front" were the GP-38's. But as I remember them, the control stand was oriented to the front of the cab, i.e. short hood.

    From what I was told, the GP-30's had some sort of altered control stand which allowed long hood forward, but not comfortably.

    Do wish that a former Southern engineer or some body with real expertise would step forward on this matter.
     
  10. BNTrainman

    BNTrainman New Member

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    RE: Long noses on Southern locomotives. I grew up in Atlanta and hopped Southern freight trains into downtown as a kid. At 11 and 12 years old, we loved to hang out at the old downtown railroad terminals (there were two). Anyway, back to the long noses. I tried to hire on with the Southern, but they wouldn't take me because I was about to be drafted for Vietnam. I ended up going to work for the Burlington Northern in 1979 as a brakeman. We had the short hood GP-9's as opposed to Southern. But, we got some monster SD-9's from the Duluth, Messabe and Iron Range one summer and they were all long hooded. The explanation I got at the time was that the long hood provided more crew prorection in the event of a crossing accident. But it was sure awkward! For more stories about my days as a brakeman, check out my website at www.bnrailstories.com and my blog Trains, Law, Movies and More at http://cabooselaw.blogspot.com/ William
     
  11. BugNerd

    BugNerd TrainBoard Member

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    That book looks interesting :)
     

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