Help with N scale B&M 6X3 layout.

Submitted for the aproval of the deans of track plans I give you the N scale Boston & Maine Branchline of NH.



This is a photograph I took of the layout from the top. The green is land, blue is water and the red is the propossed track plan. Sorry it looks like it came from a South Park cartoon:embarassed: . Now a bit of explaination is in order so you all know what I'm trying to accomplish. The nice straight section in the front is the B&M mainline of either the Conn. Valley or NH Northern, this is yet to be determined. The small yard is accessed from the main of the branchline which also serves as a siding for performing run arounds. The branch is a twice around for visual intrest when at shows. The Yard is basically a set of tracks, one for empties, one for fulls. The top industry near the bridge is the town and will be a concrete plant. The second industry on the bottom level will likely be a lumber industry of some type. You can read a better description of the layout in my blog.

So take a look and see if I have missed anything, should add anything etc. I want to reflect branchline operations with outside conections to a main line. I'm using Atlas Code 55 track through out.

Thanks
Jim

 

Ah ha! Bingo Geeky, that is what was bugging me but could not put my finger on it. I can't wait to see what you have as an idea.

Thanks
Jim

 

Jim:
I've been doodling all evening on this and can't fit the yard between the main and the branch in the 36x72 space without going to 12 or 13 inch radius, and the yard tracks would be VERY short...probably too short.

So I've come up with an alternative. Picture this:
Trk 1 B&M Main parallel to the south edge as in your plan.
Track 2 also parallel to south edge:
west 1.5 feet of Trk 2 = engine facility and yard lead curving up the west side of the layout (yard lead parallel and outside of the branch's main outer track until about 2 feet (or arm's reach for ground throw) from the south edge of the layout where it connects into the branchline's main track;
middle section = Arrival Departure track for the branch's yard--accessed from Track 1 B&M main by a left hand crossover near the engine facility and by a right hand crossover by the interchange track;
east 1.5 feet = interchange track parallel to the south edge but with a left turnout that curves from the south up the east side of the layout and serves 2 classification yard tracks that end perpendicular to the north edge (perhaps into a mirror under an overpass? or maybe through the backdrop to staging to the north).
Track 3 is the branchline's main track. On the right side of the layout, there is a modified left hand crossover from the branchline's main track to the arrival departure track (1 rt and 1 left turnout instead of 2 left turnouts)-- the branch's main track follows the curved part of the right hand turnout instead of going straight onto the Arr/Dep track. On the left side of the layout, the straight part of the turnout goes to the combination Arr/Dep track and yard lead, and the curved part connects to the branchline's main track.
Track 4 is the inside loop of the layout and does NOT connect to track 3 in the front half of the layout, only in the back after looping around to the north side of the layout.

The inner loop of the branchline main track would still have 2 industries. As depicted in your track plan, you could serve one while traveling clockwise and the other while traveling counter-clockwise. No run-around on the branchline's main track because there would be no level ground to put it on. Maybe put a run-around within the industries, if you can tolerate the higher Spaghetti Bowl Factor.

You'd have to modify the river...maybe put it on the other side of the layout.

The only S-curves through turnouts would be in the crossovers from the B&M main onto the branch yard's Arr/Dep track (and perhaps in one or both industries).

 

I wish I posted this seven years ago!

Ok a lot of good thoughts here, I wish I had done this sooner as a dificult decision may be made, more on that latter. First answers to your questions.

The layout size is 37" wide x 73" long. Workable area with the Scenic Ridge risers and all is 3 feet wide by 6 feet long.

Ok, to show how bad I am at this, I have no idea, but I did some measurements. The grade is 48 inches long with the sharpest crve being a 11" radius. At 48" long the top of the grade is 2". I think this maybe too steep. A wise man once said that smaller layouts don't usally do well with grades.

No. The hill between the track and the town will be literally covered with trees to make a natural view block as is common in NH and VT. By looking on this side of the layout, you should only be able to see the maine line, river inlet and trees and if I get it right, the steeple of a church in the distance.

Geeky, your post nailed it. I had the one turnout going the wrong way making the yard look like a zig-zag.

Agreed, either moving the river north as you said and adding more land or just giving the industry one spur might make more sense.

Everybodys input is significant to me, because it gets me thinking and seeing things in a different light. You knew my plan, I indeed was going to make a cassette for now and add a 18" wide by 4 foot long shunting yard to the right (east) yard.

I was hoping you would see this Dave! After a few operating sessions on your layout, I knew you could help me with industries and such. Dave I think your post summed it up for me, please don't take this the wrong way!

I have been struggeling with this foam layout since 1999. The first trackplan was copied from John Armstrongs Scenic and Relaxed, a late 1960's track plan designed for Atlas code 80 snap track. I built the layout per his plans, substituiting flex for sectional and had marginal results. So starting in 2006 I ripped up the code 80 and went to code 55 and simplified the track plan. One mistake maybe the grades, so thinking of the wise man who said, stay away from grades in small layouts, I'm thinking of the inevitable. The layout is way too cramped and is not giveing me the feel of a branchline.

Sometimes it is better to accept defeat and move on. The benchwork is rock solid and my cheap New England Yankee upbringing has told me not to toss the foam layout as it cost me money. But what good is a layout that doesn't bring nothing but frustration. I'm 90% sure that the foam is going out the door. The only track I had laid was the main and part of the yard. I already was able to salvage all of the yard track without ruining the track or turnouts, whew! Like I said the benchwork is solid, so I would only be out of the Scenic Ridge foam and two pieces of foam roadbed.

Once I remove the foam Scenic Ridge, I have a brand new sheet of 1/4" plywood and a new saw. I can put the plywood down, run to Home Depot and get a sheet of 2" thick pink foam and glue it down. I don't think I would even have to re-do the fascia I installed this summer, but even if I did, no big loss as I still have a sheet of fascia stock and plenty of power tools. The weather is warm right now, 42 degrees, thats like late spring in New Hampshire . I want to start building my laser cut stuff and run trains.

So please be honest, start over plan wise? Atlas has some layouts on their website designed for code 55 that match my 6X3 size. I also have a few layouts in mind that may work. The MR Buzzards Cove by Jim Kelly would work even though my benchwork is 4 inches too short, it is possiable, plus it has an interesting look with plenty of bridges, a B&M requirement! The other plan is a 4x8 HO plan that I could use with some modifications using 15 and 11" radius curves. That layout is also a MR plan, Columbus Junction RR by Jim Hediger.

Or lets see what we can come up with and I'll post pictures of my progress.

Jim

 

Here are two plans that I'm looking at.

The first is this Atas plan designed for code 55 on a 3x6 surface.


The second is an HO one. I have successfully built this in N scale on a half size, 2x4 layout pictured below. At 3X7 I can use 15" radius on one side and 13" on the other,



Here is the 2x4 version I built in NH back in 1998.

 

Sorry Sheldon, sadly the little 2X4 layout is no more . But the plan was fun, your plan is that the Atlas plan?

 

Jim:
FWIW: Rising 2 inches in 48 inches yields a grade of a little over 4%...Steeper than most layouts, but perhaps manageable if you only want to pull 3 or 4 cars and a caboose.

I like the double loop branchline for providing a demo layout for shows... it offers something more than a basic oval, and it's nice having an option of tying into a larger layout at some future point. Is it the plan itself (double looping branchline interchanging with a mainline) that is problematic or is it the grade? If you are going to eliminate the grade, how about keeping some variation on the plan, but putting a diamond/crossing in back instead of a bridge? You could still hide it with trees on hills.

I'll try to post a scan of what I described in the other posting, but incorporate a crossing instead of grade/bridge and I'll put the yard to the east.

 

Dave, Whatcha doing Saturday?:shade: Actually the problem is not the plan, its my execution of the plan. I built the sub roadbed with the Woodland Scenics, Scenic Ridge layout and it has had problems built into it. It's like my dad says in aviation, it usally is not one thing that brought a plane down, it is a series of miniture events that led to a catastropic failure. It is also the fact that I personally don't like so much track in a small area.

I think I need to pull out the white foam and lay down the 1/8" plywood and make the benchwork into a table. The plywood should make it easier to mount switch machines to. I'll add 1" pink foam on top so I can carve a river or brook inlet, you cannot have a proper North East layout without a bridge. Tina has been helping me and so far she likes my variation of the Columbus Junction layout. I'll see if I can post a picture tomorrow.

Sheldon: Those 2X5 layouts are fun, I have built a few, the only problem with a lot of the plans is they are too busy. I like your plan as it is simple and reflects a nice branchline operation. Are you using code 80 or 55 on that layout? One thing I might add is siding to perform run arounds.

Jim

 

Here's my offering. It still has grades in it to provide some interest and hide the double crossover and Far Point branch staging, but could also be executed without the grades. I placed the yard extension at the front (south) edge of the other section, but it could just as easily have been centered or positioned all the way to the back (north). FWIW...it would also be possible to run the yard north and south instead of east and west. That way, if you have a narrower space at some show, you could have a display that was only 7.5 feet wide instead of 10 feet wide (and the yards would be a little less vulnerable to sticky fingered or clumbsy viewers).


This plan has staging for both ends of both the branchline and the mainline. This certainly cranks up the Spaghetti Bowl Factor, but will provide lots of operating action as well as having provisions for sending a train out and letting it orbit. The Spaghetti Bowl Factor could be reduced by:
1. eliminating the B&M track on the left that curves back to the north and ultimately ends at the B&M West Staging tracks.
2. removing the runaround track by the industries.
3. moving the Far Point Branch Staging track off of the 3x6 foot section and putting it on the 1.5x4 foot extension where the B&M West Staging tracks are presently shown.
4. removing one of the crossovers on the east edge of the 3x6 foot section, either the one between the B&M Staging West lead and the Branch Arr/Dep track, or the one between the Branch Arr/Dep track and the Branch main track.
5. removing the double crossover and putting in a simple diamond instead. But this means you would NOT be able to have two trains simultaneously orbiting in opposite directions for displaying your work at shows...only one train making a longer (double) loop.

I would encourage you to keep at least 2 sidings within both industries. This gives you more places to spot cars for pick up or set out, plus it makes it possible to serve West Industry #1 and East Industry # 1 by B&M and West Industry #2 and East Industry #2 by the branchline power.

 

Ok guys here is the update, the old plan went out the door, literally! The old Woodland Scenics foam thing was just in bad shape with too many errors on it to bring nothing but frustration so.....Tina helped me pick out a simple track plan which I added just a little bit. I added a mainline connection and one more track to the top industry which will be the concrete plant. Here is what the two of us got done this weekend,1/8" plywood screwed and glued down on the benchwork.2" pink foam installed. I'll start laying track this week.Thoughts?Jim