I wanted to say hello, I am new. Most of my modeling effort is On3, and my goals are to build most of the South Park's passenger car fleet and enough freight cars for my dream layout. Additionally, I have built a few C&S cars in both HOn3 and On3, and plan to build more. I am a multi-scaler (who isn't :tb-wink, with my current secondary efforts going towards F scale (1:20.3) Colorado Central equipment for my 2 month old son (durable CC models), OO scale Thomas for him, and a couple Nn3 cars for novelty value. I plan on building a few HO models again (I still have a lot of HO from the past...and a passion for NKP passenger equipment)...but 90% of my hobby budget is towards advancing my On3. My On3 layout is 8' x 15'...a simple oval...with a 3-way turnout, a LCL siding, and plans for future expansion. Due to the room in which it is build, the layout height is only 2' off the floor. It is a portable layout; I plan on the scenery resembling both the Platte Canyon on the DSP&P and the Clear Creek on the CC...and a specific location on the D&RG's Blue River branch. It is primarily a test track for my equipment. The future layout will probably be Gunnison to Fisher via Alpine Tunnel...when we purchase a larger home. Personally, I don't care to purchase anything RTR as I enjoy building more than running...and so all of my South Park stuff is scratch built in either styrene or basswood. I limit my commercial part intake to a minimum to save money...such as NWSL wheels, Grandt Line NBWs, and Coronado couplers. I am a rivet counter when it comes to my own work, but not on other people's work...you may be a model railroader so that you can take the throttle, while I am so to learn about the prototypes and to have a little bit of the real thing to experience. Unlike some On3ers, I appreciate On30 and I especially appreciate what it has done for On3 (providing inexpensive parts! Die-cast steam locomotives which I can't afford!) I'm currently awaiting a motor to arrive for a Cooke 2-8-0 which I'm building from scratch. I have a B-man 2-6-0 which I regauged to On3 and added a Ridgeway Spark Arrester to...it is close enough for me, having only paid $75 for it new...since it isn't DSP&P. I have a Balboa Cooke 2-6-0 which I've lettered up as DSP&P #40...the real ones were #39, #40, and #69-74...by being numbered seperately from any accurate models I'll build in the future, its flaws won't bother me as much. I also operate a Grandt Line porter and a pair of PCM Geese I knabbed for $66 a piece with DCC & sound. My other active projects are trucks for a few cars, a few details for a few otherwise completed cars, passenger car progress, and the South Park's Pitkin depot. Here are some pictures of my models: My first passenger cars. The paycar...based on plans of its rebuilt form: C&S business car #911. I'm least happy with the name plates and the truss rods. The only commercial parts are the trucks and turnbuckles. Some of my trucks...Colorado Central on the left, DSP&P UP style on the right. I build them out of styrene (with home-wound brass springs if needed)...and have experimented with both resin and brass construction. I'm debating the issue of building the trucks for my passenger cars. An 1878 B&S 26' boxcar. My wife is from Dayton, so that gives me another excuse to love B&S stuff. Other background on me: I recently turned 26. My first foray into On3 was at age 18, and HOn3 was age 16. My wife and I have an infant son. I grew up around steam locomotives and passenger cars (my dad is a preservationist). I completed my obligatory pilgramage to Mecca (Alpine Tunnel) at age 5. My modeling got started with an LGB set and watching my dad's 2'x2" On3 "layout". I also have interest in the NKP, Alpine narrow gauges, and British trains. I'm a grad student in engineering (I've passed my PhD qualifier, but will probably finish soon with an MS due to having my son & funding issues). Hello, Michael
Hello Michael and WELCOME to Trainboard!! You sound very ambitious and I see from your work that you are an excellent modeler (would love to get copies of your plans for the DSP&P coach and boxcar BTW!). I love both HoN3 and On3 but decided to go the cheaper route with On30...I can sacrifice the accuracy of rail measurement for the money I save . You and I have a lot in common. I model the C & S in October 1899, just after the takeover from UP. I have had a temporary layout for a while (most of which was actually destroyed in a recent house fire). I love to scratch build and bash stuff too! I look forward to talking more with you about the DSP&P, CC, UP/C & S in the future. How about some shots of your layout too?
1899 is a fine time to model. I can't recall exactly, but I believe the B-3-Bs were rebuilt in 1894, which makes the line far easier to model on the cheap (since both those and future B-3-Cs were then close to the B-man 2-6-0). My modeling plan is for the long term, and I agree that it sounds ambitious. There are 4 combines, 6 head end, 12 coaches, 4 Pullmans, and 2 non-revenue which ultimately want to model. 28 passenger cars...with a goal of 2 per year...I'll have them by the time I'm 40. Currently, I'm working on 2 coaches and a baggage car. The paycar (the B-2 or the business car #911) in the previous post was based on the plans in Mal Ferrell's C&Sng book. They are poor plans. One car side is too tall...and it just so happens that the brass model of the car was built using the incorrectly drawn side. I made a number of changes based upon the practices of the day and the few pictures of its cousin, the office car. If you don't have access to the book, we can definitely arrange for you to receive a scan. This is a picture of one of the coaches I'm building. There are no plans for these. I've drawn a set, but I've met a few changes and aren't using them. The sides are much further now and I'm working on the ends. The other parts are hand scribed basswood for a 26' Litchfield built boxcar. All of my DSP&P freight cars are built using Ron Rudnick's guides. I bought all three of them last year...$45 total...directly from Ron. His three guides are: South Park, Colorado Central, and UPD&G/DL&G/U&N/KC. They are worth their weight in gold. if you want his email, drop me a PM or contact Coronado. My layout has been sitting for about a month untouched. I've stained a bunch of wood for a trestle that goes in the foreground. I've left space for a stream on the right side and a small town on the left. Here's another freight car I'm building...a 26' stock car... The only commercial parts are 300+ NBWs. Here's a car that would look great on either of our layouts. It was my first scratch built car to go through to relative completion. The plans came from a Don Winter kit that is older than me. They were published in Derrell Poole's C&S caboose articles in the 1990s. I have a set, if need be... I understand the desire to model on a budget...my goal is: $7 for NWSL wheels, $4.50 for couplers, and then no more than $8.50 for the material, NBWs, and weights. For passenger cars, I put the budget at $40 per car...$15 for trucks, $4.50 for couplers, $7 for NWSL wheels, and the balance styrene, details, and weight. I view NWSL wheels and Coronado's L&P couplers to be worth the expenditures. I operate on a budget of $40 per month. On30 is really great for me, because it allows me to get suitable drivers for scratch building motive power...by regauging them. My 2-8-0 project's drivers came from BLI. The 2-8-0 is on target for my goal of adding it, with a Tsunami and coreless Faulhaber, for $230. Next, I'm eyeing the B-man's 4-4-0 drivers for a CC 0-6-0. My son's F scale cars I'm hoping to be able to complete for $25-30 a piece...$12 for wheels, the balance for lumber/styrene/brass. It is sad whenever a fire happens. I hope your layout (and you family) are able to get back on track soon. I'll stop by frequently to talk trains...especially C&S, CC, DSP&P...or Rainbow Route, EBT, and such. Thanks for the welcome!
Yes! The B3B class is very close to the B-man model...still has some errors which I will try to correct down the road. The BLI 2-8-0 is not too far from some of the 2-8-0s used by C & S and my model will eventually become the 119. I took a look at your BLOG...really nice work and very exciting! My son's also share in the railroad, although the youngest is now (sadly) beyond Thomas. I use a lot of C & S reference material (Narrow Gauge Pictorial,mainly) but am always happy to get new references. If you do have plans for the way car I would love to build it. One of those survived into the C & S era, as shown in a photo in the NGP. Send me the full reference for the other books you mention above and I'll see if I can find them.
Hi Michael ... and I'll add my welcome to Trainboard too. What an inspiration you give to us with your skills. And what a wonderful legacy you are making for your son! I'd say you should have a resident's place in the "How To" thread, here in Trainboard. I'm especially curious to learn what tools you use for cutting your styrene and basswood. The edges are so nice an clean. I've tried to cut windows in the past and I know it is no easy process (unless you have a secret method you can share). Best wishes to you and your family.
I'll share my methods (I've used a few). Thank you for your kind words. Here are some of the references I've used...although not always agreeing with them, for building South Park equipment or getting info on it (mine or my dad's): Mac Poor's book (memorial addition) The Pictorial Supplement to the above (abridged reprint) Mineral Belts I & II The Colorado Rail Annuals: South Park Line and Narrow Gauge to CC and SP The Colorado Road Mal Ferrel's C&Sng Scott Trostel's Barney & Smith book John White's Amer RR Pass car & John White's Amer RR Freight car Harry Brunk's book Hilton's American Narrow Gauge Ron Rudnick's guides Derrell Poole articles on a C&S MoW car, reefers, and cabooses. A limited selection of photo copies from the UP renumbering guide. Hayes Hendrick's DSP&P passenger car website Some NG&SLGs, the Cooke mogul plans from the 1998 MR. Denver Public Library's western hist collection photos online. The best specific sources by far are: Hayes's site, Rudnick's, Mac Poor's, the Pictorial Supplement, and Mineral Belt II. And both Hilton and White's books are outstanding. I hope to get the Sundance CC book soon, but have no plans to get Ferrell's South Park book (I have a hard time believing that it would really have anything worth $80 that hasn't been covered...I know some of what it has). I can share articles and plans, but books are another matter. I thoroughly disagree with any notion that the South Park used Miller couplers...I say this because I've studied the photos, and upon asking this on the South Park group, got several "wow, never noticed that before"s. I also believe that the first waycars were dark colored and 14'11" long. I believe that they then defied the unified theory of railroad car creep with the later cars being shorter (based upon the known info and C&S numbers/rebuilds). IIRC, none (or no more than 2) were rebuilt with cupolas until 190x. With the Don Winter kits being hard to find and very expensive (one on ebay is currently at $76 with 5 days to go), I've thought about creating and offering a resin kit for the 14'11", 12'11", and 12'4" cars. The danger would be that my hobby could become selling kits instead of building trains. If I do make some kits, I'll also offer some passenger cars so that more people would have accurate passenger cars. 119? Perhaps a typo (something I excel at), DL&G #191. She and all but one of her sisters were kicked to the curb, along with all the other cold water brookses in 1902. The lone survivor, C&S #30 survived on the Alma branch until retirement in 1921...the sole B-4-A. The mechanism, so long as the driver spacing doesn't make you sick (why did they screw it up on an otherwise great model?!) An accurate C-16 mechanism is almost dead on for all of the real C&S 2-8-0s. For non-C&S enthusiasts...C&S class distinctions: B: 2 wheel lead truck 3: # of driver axles C: 3rd smallest class of the type B-3-A Unrebuilt 1884 Cooke moguls...C&S #11-13 B-3-B 1882 Brooks 2-6-0s which we rebuilt in 1894 essentially new. C&S #21 & #22 B-3-C Rebuilt 1884 Cooke moguls...the classic ones...C&S #4-10 B-4-A The lone surviving 1880 Baldwin 2-8-0...#30...equivalent to D&RGW C56/C-14 B-4-B The 1883 Cooke 2-8-0s, #37-#56, similar in performance to D&RGW C-16s B-4-C The 1886 Rhode Island 2-8-0s...#57-#62...wagon top boiler B-4-D The 1890 Baldwin 2-8-0s...#63-#70...wagon top...#70 became the oil burner B-4-E The 1897 Baldwin 2-8-0s...#71-#73...first 2-8-0s bought for the Clear Creek Canyon B-4-F The 1898 Brooks 2-8-0s from the DB&W...#74-#76...#74 went to the RGS. Big #1 was a Mason bogie...probably never saw C&S paint. #2-3 were un-rebuilt cold water Brooks 2-6-0s. #31-#36 probably didn't run on the C&S...they would have been B-4-As. 3 Rio Grande C-19s were leased in the 1930s (including the 346 at the CRRM), but didn't perform as well as any of the C&S engines then on the line. A CB&W/Deadwood OF 2-8-0 was also used. #74 later landed on the RGS, and is well known for being a "poor steamer"...which she actually wasn't...just that she pulled an excursion when she was new to the line and the RGS fireman didn't know how to fire her...but her reputation has never recovered amongst railfans. Since my post is getting long, I'll post a few photos and share window techniques and such later... Various cars around a year ago. My styrene parts alongside Don Winter's white metal parts. A 27' UP built coal car...with trucks common only to its class and not commercially produced. My homemade brake gear.
