One thing I like to do is file the head down on the inside of the closure rail points to help in avoiding any wheel flange from picking the points. This doesn't have to be much, just enough to flatten the rail out. DO NOT file any of the web, just the head. File at an angle, alot at the end and feathering it out along the rail. After the head is filed down, I take the pliers and put a slight bend in the area that was just filed down. This assures that the point will make contact in the notched out area of the stock rail. Again, it doesnt' need to be much of a bend. Here is the slight bend. Now we can sit the rail back in place. Next we'll get to the wing rails. -Mike
With the straight route's closure rail back in place, we'll mark where to put the bend in the rail. This to me is one of the hardest parts of hand laying a turnout. We need to get the bend at the right spot. The distance that you come back on the rail varies between turnout sizes. I have found that with a #10 turnout that the bend needs to be about 2 tie lengths back from the frog point. So we'll take and mark the rail at that location for bending. I take the rail and put it into my pliers, keeping the rail level in the pliers and at 90 degrees to them. With a turnout this large, it will only take a slight bend in the rail. If you bend the rail too far, it's ok, just bend it back. Keep checking the bend until it's parallel with the frog point. Also sight down the other side of the frog point, making sure that the closure rail is nice and even with the frog point rail. Also sight up the rail from the throwbar end, and it should be nice and even when looking from that direction also. IF you see the frog point sticking out a little, then you'll have to rebend the rail further away from the frog point until the rail is straight and even. Like I said, this is the hardest part IMO. When you are doing a turnout, you might take and bend the rail, check it, and have to straighten it back out to bend it in a different spot. The more turnouts you do, the more you will know just how many ties you'll come back before you put the bend in the rail. Another thing I like to do is keep my wing rails nice and snug with the frog point, to the point that the web of each rail is touching, and most times closer. This is why I file down the outside web and head of the frog point. Consequently, this also requires me to adjust most of my locomotive wheels, since alot of the time they are under gauged. I don't like any slop in the wheels when going through the frog. If this is not to your liking, then you'll have to mark the "where to bend" area further back so the wing rail ends up with a larger gap between it and the frog point. The downfall to this is the gap between the closure rail and frog point becomes bigger and then you'll have freight car wheels wanting to fall into it. So it's a trade off. I like the tighter clearances, you may not, but it's real easy to try both ways. -Mike
Ok, back to the closure rail, here is what it looks like with the track gauges on it and sitting in the correct place. Now we can temporarily spike down this rail and run a few cars through it to make sure it's sitting in the correct location. Take an put a spike in back at the throwbar location, right behind one of the ties but not in the tie. Also make sure the rail is all the way back in the notch in the stock rail. Now we can go up to the frog area and put in 2 more temp spikes, one on each side of the rail, but not in any ties. To test out a turnout, take 2 of your biggest or most finicky cars and roll them back and fourth through the turnout. Give them a push and let them coast by themselves through the turnout both ways. I use autoracks since they are both the biggest and most finicky cars I own. If your cars coast back and fourth through the turnout numerous times without rocking or picking the frog point, then congratulations, you put the bend in the perfect spot! If your cars pick the frog almost every time, then you'll need to adjust the bend in the rail. Picking the frog point a few times is OK, since we don't have the guard rail in yet. But we don't want to rely on the guard rail to save our wheels from picking the point every time. You will need to get this rail perfect, since the other closure rail relies on this rail to be in the correct spot, and vice versa. So take your time, and if put too many bends in this rail and it gets all uneven and "wrinkly", then start over with another piece of rail. Rail is cheap. We're almost done with the first closure rail... -Mike
One last thing that needs to be done is putting a slight bend in the end of the wing rail. This will help pull the wheels into the correct alignment to run through the frog. I take and mark the rail one tie length back from the end. Put the rail back into the pliers and give it a slight bend. It doesn't need to be bent real far, just a little bit. I also take and file a small angle in the head of the rail both on the side, and on the end. Now we can sit the rail back in place and check that we put a big enough bend in the rail. Take and run the trucks/wheels through it and make sure the flange of the wheel doesn't make contact with the wing rail. Next up is spiking in this closure rail and making the other closure rail. -Mike
Phenomenal and really nice work. Your pictures are great. With all the problems we have with pizza cutters and atlas code 55, do you have any similar problems with the spikes you are using? Or, do you just transition to metal wheel sets to avoid spike interaction? Thank you again. Great article.
Hutch, Thanks for the comment I use low profile wheels, both plastic MT's and FVM metals. I've never tried pizza cutters over these, but I would think they would hit the spikes. I'll have to see if I can find some pizza cutters and try them. -Mike
Not a problem, you don't have to try them for my sake. I am in the midst of a conversion as well. Just curious.
This is a great thread, thanks for sharing. Since the spikes were mentioned, I wanted to ask if the ties ever split. I was out of town otherwise I would have asked at that point.
John, as many as I've done, I've never split a tie when driving the spikes in correctly. The ties are pretty soft wood. It's another story when the pliers slip. I've had to take and break loose ties from the glue and replace them when I've mashed up the tie from pliers slipping. Kinda a pain to do when you have most of the turnout done. But it is doable. So rule #1, don't let the pliers slip. -Mike
Some great craftsmanship at work here. It does amaze me how well a turnout can work with no guard rails when it is made correctly, and also how the wheels don't drop down in the frog.
Leo, thanks for the kind words So it's been over 2 weeks since I started this thread, I need to work faster! Ok where were we.... Ok, now that the straight closure rail is sitting in place, we can now spike it in. Starting from the frog point, count out between 7-10 ties and put in 2 spikes, one on each side. In this area, we are not worried about spiking into the same tie as the stock rails are spiked into, since we'll be filling in this whole area with spikes. After those 2 spikes are in, we'll count between 15-18 ties from the frog point and put in 2 more spikes, this time they'll go into the same ties as the spikes holding the stock rails. Then back up 4 ties and put in 2 more spikes. So we'll have something like this: These will hold the straight closure rail in place while we get the curved closure rail into position, which is coming up next. -Mike
Now we'll grab some more rail and put it into the Fast Tracks Point Former and file it down. Once the burrs are taken off and the rail is smooth, we'll bend it into the same curve as the stock rail. (see previous post about bending the rail). The rail should look about like this: Now we'll sit the rail on top of the frog point and have it run parallel with the rail that is already spiked in, like this: This will allow us to keep the new curved closure rail straight through the frog area. Also make sure the rail is sitting snug in the recessed area at the throwbar. next is more spiking... -Mike
With the rail still sitting on top, we'll mark where to cut the rail and where to bend the rail. marking at the end of the wing rail: marking where to bend the rail (making sure it's even with the bend in the other rail) Once this rail is cut out, follow the steps outlined in the previous posts for bending the rail and making the wing rail. This curved closure rail is a little bit tricky to get in just right. When you eye down the rail, make sure that the part of the rail just before the bend lines up with the frog point rails. We want a nice straight path for the wheels to follow as we go through the frog. Just past the frog we can have the rail start it's curve on the way to the throwbar. Your eyes will tell you if the rail is straight or not. As you eye down the rail, we want it to be the same as the straight rail, perfectly in line and no frog point sticking out into the wheel's path. One thing that I notice on my turnouts is the web of each closure rail touches or almost touches each other at the frog. (see pic below) Now that the rail is bent and in line, we'll put some temporary spikes in it. Remember to put them into just the roadbed, and NOT any ties. One spike up at the frog...(note the web of both closure rails are touching each other) and one down at the throwbar. You can also pull the straight closure rail out and put a temp spike in it to hold it out while we run some test cars through the turnout. -Mike
Now take those long/finicky cars and run them back and fourth through the curved leg of the turnout. If the cars go through the turnout smooth without any bumping/jumping or picking the frog point, then Yay! the rail is bent correctly and in the right spot. If the cars keep derailing or are jumpy going through the frog, then check to see if the closure rail is not lined up real good with the frog point rail. Again, a couple frog point picks by the wheels are ok, since we don't have the guard rail in yet. Once the rail is to your liking, then it's time to spike in both closure rails. We'll also finish spiking in both stock rails too. Starting at the frog, we'll work back towards the throwbar. Take the track gauge and put it as far back to the frog as possible and start spiking both the curved closure rail and stock rail. Remember to spike the stock rail into the same ties as the other side. Also, keep eyeing down the curved stock rail to make sure it continues it's smooth curve. We don't want to introduce any kinks into it. Track gauge sitting on the curved closure and stock rails. (sorry for the blurry pic!) Spike each side of each closure rail back about 8-12 ties from the point of where they touch. I like to end on a tie that has spikes in both of the stock rails. Also put in a few spikes up at each wing rail to keep them secure with the frog point. A picture will explain this better. Here we are so far.... Now that the 2nd major part of the turnout is done, we'll finish it up by soldering the closure rail points to a pc board throwbar, attaching feeders and getting the switch machine in. -Mike
" So it's been over 2 weeks since I started this thread, I need to work faster! " No Mike your doing just fine mate. One can't hurry art.
Regarding the web touching in the frog area, this is true both of the frog and of the guard rails. Although I use the fast tracks fixtures, I have taken to sanding a few thousands off the bottom web in these areas to get the perfect fit. Web to web is almost perfect, but any small imperfection makes it too wide.
This is coming along so good, it makes me want to order some of that homasote roadbed that I have literally thrown away in the past. Feeling stupid about it now. This is really some nice work and I appreciate you sharing it with us!
Leo, you are absolutely right about this. I like to have them touching as much as I can, but due to differences in locomotive wheel gauge (which sometimes can't be fixed), sometimes I have to have the guard rails out a little bit to accommodate. This is why I put the guard rails in last, so I can run trains through it and see where they will need to be. More than one time I've spiked in the guard rails and then ran a loco through the turnout only to have the wheels lift up and roll over the frog/wing rails. Hutch, I'd say give it a try with your cork! If it doesn't work out for you, then I know of someone who would purchase your supplies from you -Mike
Now that most of the turnout is done, we'll jump to the easier task of installing the throwbar. I use pc board ties from Fast Tracks for my thowbars. (refer to page 4 for info on these) They are not as thick as a regular tie, which is good and bad (I'll explain this soon) We'll take one of the pc board ties and slide it under the stock rails and points and center it in the throwbar area. I also take and align one side with the ends of the rest of the ties. This depends on which side you want to have your headblocks go to. In this case, it's aligned with the ties on the right of the picture, since the headblocks will go to the left of the pic. Depending on what kind of turnout control you are using, where you drill a hole at will be different. Since I'm using Tortoise switch machines, I'll need to mark on the throwbar where to drill a hole for the actuating wire. With the throwbar still lined up with the ties on the one side, I mark on the throwbar just past centerline towards the side that is even with the tie ends. This is because when the throwbar is moved towards this side, it will line up with, but not go past, the rest of the ties. Making a mark Now we can take the throwbar out and drill a hole in it. The spring steel wire that comes with the tortoises is .032" (I think ?) so this is the size I drill. Center the hole in the pc board throwbar. Once the hole is drilled, I take the file and smooth out the throwbar. This roughs up the foil a bit so the solder will "grab" it better. It also takes off any small burrs that could get hung up on the turnout. Do all 4 sides and the ends. It doesn't take much. We don't want to file off the foil, just smooth it out. Next up is soldering -Mike
With the pc board throwbar's hold drilled and smoothed out, we can put it back in and mark where to cut it. We don't need the whole thing sticking out and moving back and fourth, so we'll cut it shorter. I have found that I like it sticking out about 2 ties past the edge of the turnout. I take and line up the far side with the rest of the ties on that side and butt 2 ties up against the near side and make a mark for cutting. Now, back to that good and bad statement about the pc board. Because it is not as thick as a regular tie is good. That means it won't be making contact with the roadbed and possibly hanging up on any bumps/objects or causing resistance for the switch machine (although this area still should be as smooth as possible just in case). The bad thing is that if we slide the pc board under the stock rails and points, it sits too low and won't make contact with them for soldering. Here is the solution: take 2 scrap ties and file the ends at about a 35 degree angle, kinda like this: Now we can wedge these under the pc board, bringing it up nice and tight against our rails. While these are wedged in, I like to take the file and rough up the web area of the point rails to give the solder a better chance to "grab" the rail. After roughing up the rail some, take and center the pc board again in the throwbar area and line up the one end with the rest of the ties. Also make sure the wedges are in nice a good, since we don't want the pc board moving on us when we go to solder, which is coming up next. -Mike
