Hi Guys, I was wondering when the number board placement was changed on the 4449 from the boiler center to the front of the boiler? Any one have any info?
This was posted in an earlier thread by [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Georgia, Verdana]Larry E Shankles[/FONT] .
Note; this is all based on photos of other locomotives. The book Southern Pacific Passenger Trains Vol 2 has numerous photos of the locos before and after the war. And all of the photos dated 1946 or later show the train number board moved to a more central location. Some of these photos show the same loco with the number board up front before 1946 and moved toward the back after 1946 (proving that existing locos were altered). I have not found any photos showing the 4449 either way. Photos of sisters 4448 and 4452 show the post-war change. Thus I am inferring that the 4449 was not an exception and was also changed. Since the number boards on the 4449 are now on the front again, I assume the number boards were returned to their original location (at the front) at some point. My guess being that this was done when it was restored for service on the American Freedom Train circa 1976.
Nearly all the photos I've seen of locomotives with skyline castings (GS's, MT's and P-10s) shows the numberboards placed in the middle following 1946. They were originally near the stack, but moved following the war. Not sure why the moved it back but could it be that they wanted 4449 to be restored to "original" condition? Here is a P-10 Here is an MT-1
Sometime in the early 40's. The train indicators were moved because moving them away from the lights made them easier to read at night. GS6's, came from Lima with the relocated indicators. Thom
Thanks for the info, guys. It was the more recent pictures of the 4449 with the number boards up front that mad me think. So the 4449 had number board in 3 different locations. Up front, more centeral, than up front again.
Well, it is worse than that. I could not find any photo on the web of the 4449 before its retirement, everything is post restoration. So still no proof that it was changed in 1946. However, I found that when restored for the AFT the train number board was located by the smoke stack. But by 1981 it was in the middle and was still in the middle as late as 1998. But by 2005 it was back at the front again. So I give up on figuring out how many times it has been changed. Even without photographic proof, I am 99% sure that it was changed in 1946. Whether it was changed back to the front prior to 1975, I have no idea.
As far as the restored 4449 goes today, Doyle McCormack has changed the location of the number boards depending upon the paint scheme "du jour" that he has applied to the locomotive for her various excursions. For years when in Daylight colors and the tracks still belonged to SP, the number boards were back aft and he displayed the SP train number for the tracks he was running on, particularly during the 1984 trip to the World's Fair in New Orleans. Most of the time "X4449" was displayed. When Doyle painted her black for BNSF employee excursions in 2001, the boards remained back aft. Now, when he painted her back to American Freedom Train colors in 2002, part of the modifications including making new mounts and moving the number boards back up front to the smokebox, where they remain today, though the locomotive has been returned to Daylight colors. Doyle keeps things interesting. The latest paint scheme on the tender features the small "Southern Pacific Lines" rather than the very large "Southern Pacific" she sported for years. :tb-biggrin:
I have the book America's Bicentennial Queen, Engine 4449 by Richard K. Wright. There are plenty of historic photos of it with the number boards in both locations. There is one of it on train 97 just north of Santa Barbara taken in June of 1946 with the number boards already moved back to middle position.
Not being pickey ... but do you have any idea of the date?? Cuz 4449 is in her "American Freedom Train" colors. Judging by the clothing on the folks around her, this is most likely 1977?!? :tb-confused:
Probably late January of 1976. [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] January 22-23 it was in Yuma, AZ. [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] January 24-28 it was in Tempe, AZ and [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] January 29 - February 1 it was in Tucson, AZ.[/FONT]
Sorry I don't know the year, she was visiting my Aunt near Phoenix. It was guessed before that it was in the 1970's. I would go with Russell's answer.
Here she is as an Amtrak engine somewhere in California on the way home after the Freedom Train tour.
Amtrak was her sponsor on her return trip to home (Portland, OR) when the official American Freedom Train trip was over. I believe 4449 started out in Florida for the return home, possible Louisiana. :tb-biggrin:
