Lots have been said about how "awful" or less commonly ,"wonderful" the spray canned railcars are. Decals/transfers have been available in North America and Europe for some time for those that want to use them. Just recently, another matter was raised based upon some NA 'TT' gauge SIGers comments on their website. As a group, due to the paucity of available models of North American equipment, these guys are the most flexible group of adaptive modellers around. One of the items that some folks ,who don't demand exact scale fidelity (to 1:120 in this case), have been adapting are MAISTO's freight cars that have 'TT' track gauge trucks, to their layouts. MAISTO is a large well known diecast vehicle maker whose products can be found in all the K-MART, WALMART, big boxes and other toy outlets. Recently, MAISTO, has started offering them in a series they call "Enamels", as groups of graffitized models , listing the graffiti artist's name. The question has come up, as to whether these boys and girls have become so famous ( or notorious, although it doesnt' matter which - for my question), that they are known nationally by name? Turns out that their have been art gallery sales of photos of freight car (and other objects) graffitized with aerosol paint in U.S. and Canada. I know some people think that Walmart selling die cast B&O box cars with large graffiti shots, is a sure sign of the plot to destroy the moral fiber of our children.... and so forth! Regardless of that, are the graffiti people and their monikers so well known across the continent, that marketting toys by them is a real sales booster? I think that is an interesting question that may make some of our slides more valuable as historic records than anyone thought, if it turns out they are an important historical record of an epoch. Has anyone been to a showing of Graffiti "art"? Do you know of people who are famous graffitists? Thank You, PJB
Well, to answer your question, no I haven't gone to a "show", or even heard of one. The whole topic of graffitti can get into some sticky arguments, you know. "Art? or is it Vandalism?" Yes, it is reality. Yes, our photos are documenting this human activity in this time. I take a few graffitti shots now and then, but I largely view it as simple vandalism. Frankly, I would rather talk about the TT scale!
There are different types of train art. Train art goes back pretty far in railroad history, starting with chalk drawings that brakemen would put on cars such as the killroy design. So to say that graffitti is something new is pretty naive. Much of what we learned about Roman culture in Pompei was learned through reading the Latin graffiti on the walls of the city. These days, a lot of what you see is just scrawling with a spray can. I think some of those guys have smelled too much of the solvents they spray and are brain damaged. Every once in a while there is a larger piece that is truly a painstakingly created work of art. "The Rambler" On the smaller side is the hobo tags that are still being put on train cars. Most people do not notice them because they are so small as to be virtually un noticeable. I have taken an interest in these hobo tags and spend some time online examining collections of them. "Bozo Texino" One of the more famous is the Bozo Texino tag. There is even a documentary about Bozo Texino called "Who is Bozo Texino." They actually find him in a railyard in texas, and he is an ex brakeman for a railroad. He still spends some time each week putting his moniker on train cars with a grease marker as he has been doing for some 40 years. "Collosus of Roads" Here is a link to a hobo site: http://www.northbankfred.com/ T-shirts with hobo tags: http://www.endlessbikes.com/products/swag.html So if you truly want to be prototype, even if you model 40's era railroads, you better have some hobo art on your cars.
To add to what has already been said, there are still a few people who who those types of "tags" as a way to identify that the person has worked on or seen the car in some sort of manner. While I worked for the railroad and railfanned as well, I have seen all the above except for the Bozo texino. The rambler I think either is a railroad employee or has some connection to where he is able to mark alot of cars per day. I used to see his marks quite often. At one point in my railroad days, I used to do the same thing as I did a inspection of the car. It got known somewhat localy by the folks on CSX. Reason being some of the cars that I tagged where seen by my brother and some of the people on CSX that he knew. He lives 80 miles south and saw some of my tagged cars a few weeks after I hit them. That legend has kida died on the prototype but the models still get tagged from time to time by the stickman. :shade:
I was actually surprised at the hardline stance the September 06 Trains mag took on Graffiti. I'm in the middle on whether it's art or simple Vandalism, I think it is a bit of both, but the logic presented in the article was ridiculous. I have a hard time believing graffiti has any kind of lasting impact on the "good name" of the railroad as the mag. suggests and my respect for the editors, writers and publisher of that magazine took a major hit because of it.
This same subject came up on the Atlas board, but the tenor was so negative I didn't want to chime in... Whether any of it can possibly be "art" is obviously in the eye of the holder. But I will opine that we should judge each case on its merits. I like seeing the old grease-pencil hobo tags of Bozo Texino, Colossus of Roads, and others...It's simple, it's been around a long time and it's part of railroad tradition. Often there is a sense of some wisdom being shared. It has more soul than some initials slashed with a spray can, it doesn't really interfere with railroaders jobs and it actually comes off easy. As for the spray can stuff, the vast majority of that is pretty lame "tagging". And anything that obscures loading info or other stuff that railroaders need to know is obviously potentially dangerous. But sometimes it earns my respect. The stuff that's reproduced in the MT Graffitti collector series is actual art in my opinion, although that kind of thing is pretty rare in real life. The stuff that's on these Miesto cars ...well, its pretty borderline for me. More in the realm of glorified tags than anything interesting. If your curious what we're talking about... http://www.maisto.com/products.asp?stext=&ID=172&submit=Search
Graffiti art IMHO, it is simply vandalism and just one more reason people around trains are watched suspiciously,making it difficult to railfan some places.Having worked as a graphic artist there are multiple outlets for this creativity,perhaps using a canvas that belongs to you.While these works are colorful and at times technically difficult,the bottom line is they are created on someone else's property,and I doubt the owner of said property welcomes the intrusion.That's my two cents worth <-------(putting away my soap box).Although I have created this "intrusion" in HO scale on some friend's freight cars,at their request.
Not all tagging is done in a railyard.I would probably have to say most of it isn't.To do what is done has to take atleast 2 hours I would say.Most railyards don't let cars sit that long.They are doing this when they are spotted at industries or in the outskirts somewhere.I know it is a huge debate over art or vandalism.I think it is a artform.Yes I know there is trespassing done to do it but it is still a artform to me.
So if graffiti is done well, or done by a ‘famous graffiti artist’, it’s considered less vandalistic? I personally don’t care if the graffiti is artistically superior to a Rembrandt, it is still vandalism and wrong (and a complete waste of talent if it’s that good).
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Yes it is illegal, But it is there. Some think it is art some think it's vandalism. We can sit and argue that point all day long but it won't change those 2 simple facts.
Here is a point to think about. Put the graffiti on the side of your car or SUV. Now consider if it is well done or done by a ‘famous graffiti artist’. Now, is it art or just plain vandalism.
Why do people take this topic so personally? I don't get this. If they are your boxcars and equipment please let me know how the performance is after being tagged. That is what matters most, If the cars are loads or empties. If the Grafitti makes the car unable to be laoded then there is a problem that will hurt the owner of the car.
Ed The difference is that you wanted to have your vehicle painted. I am also sure that you choose to have your ride painted by a person of your choice and to a design of your choice. Your correct that I don't drive a boxcar to work. With the long line of traffic each day, sometimes it feels like I'm sitting in a string of boxcars. The point I was trying to make is that a business does not enjoy having their property vandalized. Just as you would not enjoy some kids from the neighborhood repainting your ride one night. If one wishes to paint, get a canvas. Just because something might look good or have been done by a famous person, should not change fact that it is still vandalism and illegal. It's how I feel for what it's worth. Truly not trying to offend anyone.
CB&Q, I fully understand your point. But when it all comes down to it the point I was trying to make is that once the cars is out of the manufacturer the only thing that the owner cares about is if it is making money carrying a load from one place to another.As long as the performance of the car isn't tampered with I really doubt they care. If so you would see more people in jail for that crime. And as far as feeling like a boxcar in traiffic I fully understand that, I just like looking more unique than the other boxcars. I hope you will get the humor in that point. And like you I am not intending to offend I just don't understand why railfans take this subject personally sometimes.
Your are correct, it is not our equipment - and that's the point. I personally get frustrated when people show no respect for property no matter whose it may be. As a parent it's hard to explain to my young kids why something like this is wrong when there are toys in Wal-Mart that have it. Yeah, there are a lot of other worse things in the world, and I'm not trying to build this up as a major crime. But if I did own boxcars that were tagged I'd be upset. It may not have any effect on performance (unless they painted over reporting markers), but it does have a big effect on my PR image. I would have paid a consultant a lot of money to come up with a RR logo that would play positive in the public eye, and went through the expense of having each boxcar painted up. Now some 'artist' comes along, tags my cars, and ruins my PR investment.
Maybe I'm wired differently from other folks, but personally I'm getting tired of seeing more & more freight cars showing up on the rails "tagged", vandalized, made into rolling canvases, or whatever you want to call it, by wannabe artists/gangbangers/punks. Please don't tell me to stop railfanning or put my camera away- that solves nothing. It's all graffiti, and it's all vandalism. Period. I'm glad Trains took such a hardline stand on this. There are so many places for some of these so-called aspiring artists to do their work in their own neighborhoods- walls, sides of buildings, etc., with the owner's blessing. Better there than a side of a freightcar or locomotive (IIRC, climbing on a locomotive to "tag" it is trespassing), or perhaps someone's own personal vehicle or residence. I may be getting grumpy in my middle age, but that is my opinion.
Tagging is a reality. I don't like it, no matter what the artistic level. I certainly would not appreciate my car being tagged. It's not as big as a boxcar, but some SUVs are approaching that size. I believe the discussion here is on whether we should model it or not model it. The discussion is not its legality nor its artistic merit. Modeling it probably does not promote it to would-be taggers--how many would see a model railroad? Perhaps a few would be incited by models; I think the vast majority would be incited by the actual thing.
I guess it is the blunt "in your face" aspect of it. I was brought up to respect other people's property and to see that some folks obviously don't hold the same values is what bothers me. One of my nephews is a tagger. Much of his work is done legally and I guess he is very talented at what he does. However he admits to some illegal stuff. I have told him if I ever see his tag on a rail car, I will call one of my railroad special agent friends and report him. Right now he is teaching English to Russian businessmen in Moscow for a year. I hope he doesn't go out and start adding to the graffiti in Moscow. A Russian prison would not be as much fun as an American one for sure.
