Georgetown Loop, CHS

fitz · Jun 26, 2004

The latest Railfan mag has an article by Jeff Terry about the conflict between the Colorado Historical Society and the operators of the Georgetown Loop RR. Jeff was politically correct, not implying anyone was wrong. Seems the CHS has decided that the Ashby family, who owns and operates the RR, needs to be replaced after umpty some odd years of successful operation. Can any of you guys who live in Colorado and might know something of what is going on shed some light on this? Is it stupid politics? Sure sounds like it. I rode the Georgetown Loop in 1994 and it was a classy operation.

Keith · Jun 26, 2004

One sticking point, that I've heard, is the contract length. CHS want nothing LESS than a 30 year agreement. Add to that an extreme increase in Insurance costs.
I can see if I can find more from the DRGW list archives sometime over the weekend. Was an interesting discussion on it a while back.
I even worked on the Loop, through my railroad club, WAY back in 1987!

BoxcabE50 · Jun 26, 2004

Originally posted by fitz:
Is it stupid politics? Sure sounds like it.
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I'm betting that it is just that.

As I understand what information has surfaced, most, if not all equipment is NOT owned by CHS. So the present operator will take it away when they leave. Finding truly adequate replacement items will not be an easy task. Extremely costly.

Thirty years is ridiculous. In today's business climate, ten years is getting on the long side.

We all lose in this one.

Boxcab E50

Stourbridge Lion · Jun 27, 2004

I am planning a Video trip later this summer to collect as much footage as I can before both sides destroy this historical railroad.

BoxcabE50 · Jun 27, 2004

Darren-

That's a very smart plan!

Boxcab E50

Stourbridge Lion · Jun 27, 2004

And then sell it...

fitz · Jun 27, 2004

Ah, Capitalism, what our great country thrives on. I want a copy of your video. Do you accept PayPal?
You are right about the ownership of the locomotives and rolling stock. The Ashby family owns ALL of it. That's why I think this ploy by CHS is a "cut off your nose to spite your face" thing.
Oh well, the whole world is full of stupid things lately.

Stourbridge Lion · Jun 27, 2004

What better way to have fun and find a way to make a few bucks doing it too

Tonight I started playing with my new Video software from a trip I took in 1999 into the Civil War battlefields. I figure if I can make a good VHS that I can share with family of that trip I should be able to make Railroad Videos of all my trips to share with others; such as my friends here at TrainBoard.

Stourbridge Lion · Jul 14, 2004

Just saw this on Steamrailroading Dot Com

Georgetown Loop rail operators bow out

After its contract was rebuffed, the state historical society vows to find replacements by spring.

The operators of the Georgetown Loop Railroad have decided to end their 31-year run at the state-owned tourist park.

Mark Greksa, co-operator of the historic railroad, told the Colorado Historical Society on Wednesday that his group would not be pursuing a new contract to run the tourist train in Georgetown.

"I don't think the Colorado Historical Society has a really good idea of what it takes to run the train," said Greksa, whose group began running its steam-powered, narrow-gauge trains in Georgetown in 1973. "Their proposal for a new operator makes it nearly impossible to make a profit."

The society, which last week issued a request for proposals seeking a new operator for the train, promised it would find a new train operator by next spring.

"We are sorry they decided not to pursue the (contract), but we feel we have other qualified candidates, and we will have the train running in 2005," society spokeswoman Julie Wedding said.

Contract renewal negotiations between Greksa's group and the society broke down early this year, and the society launched an international search for a new operator.

Greksa is planning to move his company's narrow-gauge locomotives and cars either to a railroad museum or pursue another tourist train operation in California.

The society - a division of the Colorado Department of Education with a $28 million budget in 2004-05 - has promised potential vendors use of an aged locomotive being restored in Strasburg and possible use of a long-dormant engine on display in Idaho Springs. The society also has said it would allow diesel trains to pull the tourist cars on the 4.5-mile track.

The Cumbres & Toltec tourist train operation in southern Colorado spent nearly $2.5 million to restore three similar steam-powered engines. Wedding said the society has a preliminary restoration estimate of $260,000 for the engine in Strasburg.

"The society's plans for those engines are not based in reality," said Scott Hightower, a Denver-area train buff and longtime supporter of the Georgetown Loop Railroad. "You've got a current passenger load on the railroad today that in no way can be met with the equipment the Colorado Historical Society plans to use. Those locomotives are smaller, and they've been sitting idle for decades. It's a pipe dream."

Greksa said the recent election of Lee Behrens to the Georgetown Board of Selectmen persuaded him to leave town when his contract expires this fall.

Behrens runs the 978-acre, state-owned Georgetown Loop Historic Mining & Railroad Park.

Behrens and Greksa's railroad group have a long history of political conflict in Georgetown. In his annual report to the Colorado Historical Society last year, Behrens told society executives that Greksa's involvement in local politics should be considered when contract renewal talks begin.

"Our political beliefs have nothing to do with operating the Georgetown Loop," said Greksa, who hosted 115,000 visitors on his train cars last summer. "We don't agree with Lee Behrens, and we don't think we would get a fair shake if we stayed here." Behrens declined to comment.

"This whole thing is just sad," said Richard Boulware, a Denver-area train buff and former official with Denver International Airport. "The historical society is being incredibly naive. They have three decades of very successful operations, and now they are talking about diesel engines? The appeal up there is steam power and the steam whistle bellowing. It's a piece of American nostalgia that rings a very distinct bell in the soul of most Americans."
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Stourbridge Lion · Jul 14, 2004

Follow-up story:

The operator of the Georgetown Loop Railroad has decided to end 31 years of running the historic rail line.

Greksa said the Colorado Historical Society precipitated the decision by setting unacceptable financial terms.

Everything will remain the same with the Royal Gorge Route," he said. "We will pull out our equipment,(from Georgetown) and use it elsewhere, because there is great demand for steam trains. We put a lot of time and effort into it. In the end, it's a positive for us."

The society owns the 978-acre Georgetown Loop Historic Mining & Railroad Park and the 4.5-mile track between Silver Plume and Georgetown. However, the trains belong to Greksa's family-owned company.

One provision in the contract offered by the society would have returned 40 percent of any end-of-season profit from Georgetown for unspecified purposes, possibly preservation. The current contract expires this fall.

The society estimated there would be $60,000 left at the end of the season, "but that's based on overly optimistic ridership that the society could not deliver on its own," Greksa said.

New guidelines also would have removed control of gift-shop sales from the operator and "would have barred us from doing our own promotion with our own Web site and computerized reservation system," Greksa said.

Historical Society would be responsible for promotions, and "they don't know how," Greksa said.

"We put a lot of time and effort into this operation, but ultimately, their project would fail, so we pulled out," Greksa said. "We decided not to respond to their request for proposal."

At the end of the summer, Greksa said the locomotives and cars will either go to a railroad museum or be used as part of another operation — possibly the RGRR.

Whether the Georgetown line will re-open next year is unclear.

The national Tourist Railway Association believes finding another operator for the line that connects Georgetown to Silver Plume will be difficult because all narrow-gauge trains are in use.

The Historical Society, however, remains hopeful.

"We're looking at a number of different plans and have had interest from a number of people," said president Georgianna Contiguglia.

The deadline for train operators to submit proposals is Aug. 3. Contiguglia declined to say whether any proposals have been received.

Greksa said political clashes with Lee Behrens, who runs the state-owned site in Georgetown, persuaded him to move on. Greksa opposed the recall of Georgetown Mayor Koleen Brooks in 2002. Behrens wanted Brooks ousted, Greksa said.

Selectman Robbie Hodge, a 20-year Silver Plume resident, said replacing the Greksas will be difficult and losing the railroad for even one season "would be a major blow" to Silver Plume and Georgetown.

"It's ominous to even think that something like this could go away — but it could," he said. "Mark told me they'd go broke under the 40-percent provision but indicated he might be willing to help out with a transition until we can get someone else to run the railroad.

"I think we should lobby and beg him to stay."
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BoxcabE50 · Jul 14, 2004

It sounds like the age old story. Politicians who believe they're masters of business acumen. But in reality have no clue. Versus business people who actually do have the skills.

In the end, most everybody suffers. Except the politicos who messed it up. Who always seem to escape with their skins.

It'll cost CHS millions to replace what they've chased away. They're incredibly niave' to believe otherwise. Steam isn't cheap. Diesels won't cut it.

Boxcab E50

Stourbridge Lion · Jul 14, 2004

You can say that again!!!!!!!

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Georgetown Loop, CHS

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