I read the SLSF Wikipedia entry recently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Louis_–_San_Francisco_Railway and saw the system map of the railroad. Pardon me if this is a FAQ, but why did the railroad call itself the "St. Louis - San Francisco Railway" when their trains never even went to the latter half of its namesake, or for that matter, anywhere near California? The Wikipedia entry fails to mention this. Can anyone clear this up?
The name came about based on lofty plans in the 1800's to connect to San Francisco some day as the California Gold Rush took hold. As you mentioned however, the Frisco never quite made it. You can read a very nice history of both the Railroad and its interesting coonskin logo here: The Frisco: A Look Back at the St. Louis-San Francisco Railway Regards, -Mike
Thank you very much! Your username lives up to its reputation! It just strikes me as really ironic that the railroad's nickname alludes to a destination it never reached! Perhaps I should start an airline company called "Mars Airways." One day we'll reach the red planet, but for now we can only take you to Pittsburgh!
Terry, I think what Steve meant that the city of Santa Fe wasn't on the Santa Fe's mainline. Right Steve?
Yes, indeed. I knew about the branch. I just always thought it was interesting they bypassed SF with the main, but kept the name.
Under the same circumsatnces, you find a number of roads that were neamed "Pacific" or "Atlantic" and didn't make it either.
There can be quite a few names dredged up. Whether or not they actually had plans, or wanted to sound big to attract investors? The Central Pacific never made it to any "Central" place in the geographic USA. Missouri Pacific... Wisconsin, Minnesota & Pacific Minneapolis & Pacific Kansas Pacific Kansas, Oklahoma & Gulf Sioux City & Pacific Texas & Pacific How about a grand sounding name- The Atlantic & Pacific RR.... Wyoming & North Western- Built some mileage in west central Wyoming. Never got across the Rockies. Chicago & North Western Another that flopped, the Midland Continental. Supposed to run north and south from the Canadian border toward the Gulf. Made it about seventy miles, and went broke. I have always wondered about the Duluth, South Shore & Atlantic. Oh well. Boxcab E50
One thing on the Pacific though, some of them aimed for the Pacific region. Southern Pacific was in the southern part, and Central Pacific was pretty central to most of the Pacific civilization at that time. Still, many of them didn't make it.
The CP built eastward. It did not seek to reach the Pacific. It sought vital connection to the world east of the Rockies. I'm speaking primarily of those that were building from the so-called "Midwest", Mississippi River region, Heartland vicinities. Most of those which used the word "Pacific" came nowhere near such a goal. Although not using that requisite word, even the little Minneapolis & St. Louis struck westward in two prongs. One actually reached the Missouri River. Neither attempt brought the revenues sought. Boxcab E50
Right, not the Pacific Ocean. They built from Sacramento, but they were at least in the ballpark for the Pacific Region. That's all I meant, and it;s a lot more than the others got anyway
True, plus its territory was north of Southern Pacific's, but still south of Northern Pacific's, so technically it's name was accurate
Two out of Three isn't bad. They started in Duluth MN. went east along the "South Shore" of Lake Superior, but didn't quite reach the Atlantic. I think their eastern-most point was Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan. Dan
All of the founders and operators of these lines had grandiose dreams of how far their lines would extend. "Lofty" is a good word, as was stated earlier. Most never achieved those dreams. :tb-sad:
Well, actually, the C&NW DID go north and west of Chicago, so technically it did live up to its name. The "North Western" could be considered vague enough to cover it. I know......picky, picky, picky........:tb-tongue:........but I agreee with the rest of the RR names. Shoot, KO&G never got further south than Denison, Texas, which itself was only a few miles south of the Red River.
Well, yes. Technically. Actually C&NW was working it's was toward the Pacific NW. Note the Wyoming & North Western was listed. Absorbed subsidiary of the C&NW. Can't get much further NW of Wyoming than the Pacific NW region. Boxcab E50
Interesting you should mention that. It's the reason the Frisco never got to Frisco. It was supposed to. The original plan, sanctioned by Congress itself back in the land grant days, was for the Frisco to reach the Pacific via the Atlantic & Pacific. But both roads had serious problems. The Frisco was doing fine in Missouri, but then it reached Indian Territory and the Indians didn't want to do business with it. It and the Katy were the two roads allowed to build across the territory, but were fought tooth and nail in the courts by Indians who figured with the railroads came white men who would want their land. They were right, of course. But in the meantime, they didn't generate a bit of business for the Frisco. The A&P, meanwhile, was a regional short line in the Mojave Desert. No joy there... The A&P at this time was owned by the Frisco. The Santa Fe wanted to get to the Pacific. So, they bought the whole works, around 1890. If you ever wondered why the Frisco and Santa Fe met in Paris, TX, now you know. But then the Santa Fe went bankrupt three years later. They couldn't hang onto the Frisco in the reorganization, but did hang onto the A&P, which was fairly worthless at the time as it had no business. Three or four years after that, the Santa Fe arrived in Los Angeles and started a price war. It went from a sleepy village to a city literally in a matter of weeks. And the rest is also history...
