I am in the planning stages of a layout and would like to know where to go on the web to find drawings and or plans for laying out a yard and locomotive service facility. This will be in HO but, am seeking ideas now. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks
Raymond Here is a link to get started at... [FONT=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]The Ten Commandments of Model Railroad Yard Design[/FONT] http://www.housatonicrr.com/yard_des.html
Just a note: That site is run by a modeller with very strong opinions. His "sample yard layout" showing an ideal design is a very atypical yard. The ladder goes the opposite way it normally does, so the entire yard is a switchback. This absolutely requires that the lead be as long as the longest body track. That is common advice for any yard arrangement, but it often eats up too much mainline length on the model. Judging by most published plan books, you might (and I formerly did) think there are three major types of flat classification yard: single-ended along-the-line, double-ended along-the-line, and single-ended terminal. An interesting arrangement was used by noted modeller Bruce Chubb for decades on his high-traffic Sunset Valley. He had a double-ended yard, but with a short lead on each end. It still could be switched efficiently by two operators. Interestingly, it was at the end of the line. The rule "don't foul the main" is also normal. However, it's not really relevant in a stub end-of-line yard. One piece of advice regarding engine servicing facilities: If you have a turntable, provide at least two tracks (other than stall tracks) entering it. This is normal real-life procedure.
Stewart, Finding detailed matter about this subject on-line is a somwhat ify prospect. I was able to locate a book that would seem to satisfy your request. The Model Railroader's Guide to Freight Yards (Model Railroader Books) (Paperback) by Andy Sperando Here is a link to Amazon.com where you can find the book starting at about $10. [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Model-Railroaders-Guide-Freight-Railroader/dp/0890245762"]Model-Railroaders-Guide-Freight-Yards[/ame] I hope this helps Jerry
Stewart The book Jerry suggested is really good. My wife got frustrated with my constant fretting about the yard design, she bought it for my birthday, it is a great reference that I keep returning to.
Look at my new yard at Westport. Sorry, text at this time only in German, but the pictures will tell. You see the drawing. I used many Peco #6. I'm until now very satisfied with my yard. For long trains I have to use the main. But most time my yard lead is sufficient. You will find im my album more pictures. Wolfgang
Thanks guys. I am planning on having a simple double ended ladder yard with a small locomotive shop and serviceing area. It is not going to represent a main terminal, but rather a mid-point between two terminals, where cars are dropped off and picked up for local traffic. And locomotives are kept there to work the yard and the local traffic. I think that there is more than enough here to get my ideas flowing better untill I get to the LHS to get the book.
Here are a few pictures comparing various stub end yards showing the space / design trade off: The most efficient to maximise storage in a given area, 220 inches: 210 inches: The easyest to plan / build and manualy flip the turnouts: 180 inches: Maybe this is better: White marks are where I measured from http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php?cat=1194
Hi Triplex Saw your notes concerning my website and my article on yard design. Yes, I do have some strong opinions and I'm not afraid to state them. If you would like to discuss any of them you agree or disagree with I'm open to hearing what you have to say. I've spent many years studying and teaching layout design and I feel qualified to express my opinions on the subject whenever asked. Just so people don't think I'm some yahoo with a website, I have presented clinics on the subject at several NMRA National Conventions and am a long-standing member of the Layout Design Special Interest Group, I have been published in that groups' Layout Design Journal and also the Operations SIG magazine the Dispatchers' Office. Those are my credentials. As far as the yard design article goes, you are right, the sample yard doesn't look or work exactly like a prototype yard. But I think your assessment is simplistic and misleading. The Ten Commandments are tools designed to help readers analyze and interpret any yard plan or design, and understand how they will -- or won't -- work. The sample plan is but one possible result of applying the rules I set forward, but the rules can be applied to any design to help edit it and make it work as the designer wants it to. That said, the designer needs to know how a yard works and what it does in order to design one. Again, the Ten Commandments is designed to teach readers how a yard works, why things are arranged the way they are and what all the individual tracks are for, and how they work together. I have had hundreds of thank-you notes over the years from grateful readers who said the article unlocked the mystery of yard design for them, and went on to design and build yards that worked great for them. So I feel to simply dismiss the entire article because you felt the sample diagram was unrealistic is a disservice to other forum members who might find a more careful examination of the material helpful. It makes me wonder if you read the entire article and tried to apply any of the rules. If you have more specific criticisms about the points mentioned I'd be glad to debate them with you. I have had people convince me of new ways to present the ideas from time to time, I'd like to know what wisdom of yours I should include in the next revision. If you have nothing to add I'd appreciate it if you'd back off and reserve your critiques to something you yourself are an expert on. I apologize if this is harsh, it is not intended to be so. As you yourself noted I do carry some strong opinions. As I said before I'm interested in how you think the article could be improved and I welcome a dialog on it with you. I'll be waiting to hear if you have anything more to say about it. Craig Bisgeier Author, The Ten Commandments of Model Railroad Yard Design www.housatonicrr.com
I have been an avid reader of your "The Ten Commandments of Model Railroad Design" and found them to be of influence. Since this is your first post on Trainboard someone must have tipped you off to Triplex's opinions in this thread. So rather than object to a members comments as stated, take the high road and add something to the discussion. You certainly should be able to There are other vehicles on this board such as email and private messages to rant this type of response. You just went down a notch on my belt. Enough Said
Why you all bent out of shape? Triplex says "Just a note: That site is run by a modeller (who would be Dark Territory) with very strong opinions." Dark Territory says, "Yes, I do have some strong opinions," and then gets in a snit. You just agreed with him, why are you starting an argument? Do you just like to argue? I'm fairly new to this message board, but not to all message boards, and I have read months' worth of threads here, and this is the first time I've seen "Them's fightin' words" (or phrases conveying similar intentions). Pretty amazing, since we aren't discussing politics....
Look Before You Leap! Wow, what a post! In the future, perhaps you should make one slight revision to the quoted phrase, include the word "constructive" immediately before "add" and then repeat that entire phrase to yourself 10 times before you hit "submit reply".
I do not "dismiss your entire article". I have read the entire article several times. The advice is generally good, and matches with advice other modellers have given. I only question the sample yard design because I've rarely seen such designs on plans and have never watched such a yard operate. Other than that, I just feel the focus is only on one type of yard. For example, since a lot more double-ended yards are being built by modellers now than 50 years ago, perhaps a little more discussion of issues specific to them is warranted.
I agree with most of what has been said here. I think that if you have a design and it works and you are happy with it that is all that matters. As I am not a "rivet counter". If it is not prototypical and works, good. If it is prototypical and works, even better. I will rework every thing until it fits what I need. Until then, thanks to all who provided that info that I need, Wolfgang, you have helped greatly (just get the site in English one day) and all the others who have provided links to good info or books recommended. As the future layout is still in the planning stages. Even if the layout never comes to life, I have gained knowledge that will be in the head and may help somebody else.
Heck, when I designed my yard there were only seven commandments. I must be getting old(er)! But the ten commandments are a good evaluation tool and are highly recommended. You also get better at designing your yard by designing several and discarding the ones that break the most rules. As I remember, it is impossible to design a flat yard that complies with all the commandments. The only way to comply with all the commandments is to have a yard (like the gigantic UP yard) where you have elevated tracks that cross over others so they will not foul the main, yard lead, engine terminal, passenger terminal, etc.
This is especially an issue on double-ended yards, and is in fact what I alluded to in my last post. I've noticed in track planning that I can't design a flat double-ended yard that allows easy access to the engine terminal from both ends. In fact, if you're building a large yard, elevated tracks may be practical - access tracks to the engine terminal can be steeply graded, since mostly light engines will be using them.
Changes in my yard Everyone, Because of some of the information posted in this thread, I decided to do a major overhaul of the yards of the Santa Fe & Cajon Pass railroad. I put in all #8 turnouts along the main line. That opened up some interesting possibilities both in the yards and on the grade up through the pass. Arriving and departing trains now have their own dedicated departure tracks which are easily accessible from the main line and from the classification yard lead. both ends of the yard now have caboose tracks whose are accessible from both ends of the yard. The engine fuel facilities are nor located in a small stub yard although some switching is required to access the sanding towers, it is a lot easier that it used to be. Another yard for car maintenance is available both for extensive repairs and for repair in place activities. The passenger service tracks can now handle longer trains. Look over the attached picture and feel free to comment on any thing that catches your eye. I want to thank everyone especially Triplex and DarkTerritory for peaking my curiosity. Jerry
I've got to agree that this thread has piqued my thinking about my own yard. I hadn't run across Craig's ten commandments, but they are wise. I used John Armstrong's Planning for Realistic Operations instead. I basically took his drawing of a yard for a medium-sized club, and bent it around a corner. One advantage of N scale is that a single garage is about the equivalent of a medium-sized club. I have about 36 feet by 3 feet for a yard, along the west and north side of the room. I read the ten commandments for the first time last night, and think I actually complied with all ten. But I'm going to have to look at it much more closely. I've found it extremely difficult to judge layout designs. There's usually a tremendous amount of effort in a design, and it's hard for me to determine another person's intent. It's why I'm not on the Layout Design Discussion forum very often. I'm not an expert on yard design or railroad operations--I'm simply a modeler whose base is a railroad. So I copy whatever track planning elements that seem reasonable to me. I also know, as a writer, that's it's extremely difficult to get inflection and tone across. Often we write quickly, especially if writing for something like a non-paying forum, and often we leave the wrong impressions unintentionally. I've done it many times. Something that I've meant as humorous or witty comes across as an insult. My article "War with the Wabbits" tickled the funny bones of millions of readers, but also infuriated a few hundred who thought my fence was starving the poor cottontails to preserve my gardens. So I'm hoping everyone here will give each other a little space. That means everyone. A forum is a place for debate but, we're not face-to-face. Written messages get misinterpreted all the time. If we give each other a little space, we'll make friends instead of enemies.
