First G Scale out door Layout!! (or Welcome to the G & G!!) Hello all! first post here, and just a quick question on my new outdoor layout. Started with rough grade last fall, so it could settle in over winter, and now this spring/summer have been working on getting the grades better, and laying track. I have been doing a lot of reading, various posts and publications, but havent seen many mentions of my question.......... How far/often should I put electrical jumper contacts for an outdoor layout??? Ie, other than the main connection from transformer to track, how often should there be some power feeds along the way? I have worked with HO, N, in the past......and G indoors, so I am not a total nube....just the first time outside!! Regards, Darryl
Hi, I have mentioned track connections in my posts titled EMD Trainmans G scale section 2008 and 2009, but to save you from pages of reading thru it. The first thing you need to know is to buy #10 2 wire cable, that is a must. This 2 wire cable is available from St Aubins only which is why I'm mentioning a vendor at this time. It is ok to mention a vendor as long as they sell a exclusive product. Anyway, next you will need hillmans rail clamps as they are the only ones to sell track connectors for this #10 connector. Depending on the size of your layout and what type transformers you use depends on how many feeders you will need. I own 300 ft of track, there are 3 seperate tracks, but I use the powerful Bridgewerks DL-1000 transformers, so therefore I only have one feed for each track and have less than 1 volt drop off. G scale power is alot different and more powerful than those who model in N and HO needing multi feeders. This is due to using brass track also which is a higher conduction than nickel. Depending on layout size I would just put one feeder closest to the transformer and another on the opposite side of the layout and you should be ok unless you are installing a 1,000 ft of track or above railroad system
EMDTrainman, Thanks for your response. Today was spent actually placing track on the rough grade, and placing grade stakes. I have a basic figure 8, and has around 130-140 linear feet of track. The transformer I have now is not high grade, but is designed for G scale, future money will be spent on a higher quality unit. For the beginning, I will only run one train at a time, so I think I can use mine for now, we will see. I have read some on joint connections.......and am trying to find a consistant train of thougt.....Joint connectors?? solder connections??? rail clamps??? Also.....How much gap for expansion should one leave in the joints??? I have some materials here at home I will research, as well as the internet....but any comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated from those who have actual real world experience!!!! As I have a chance, I will try to post some pics of my basic layout after todays work. Regards, Darryl
You also bring up so other great dicussions in my postings under the same titles. You don't leave any gaps period. Hillmans makes what is called a track expander. It is a neat little thing and is also a must for outside railroaders, especially if in a climate changing place. This rail expander gets tied into your track layout and will automatically contract and expand as needed, especially if you are running brass it works well, it is just a short piec of track basiclly that slides within itself to make it self longer or shorter. In order for this to work however your track work needs to float, don't tie it down or stake it down. Which brings me to your next question, you will want to go with hillmans rail clamps for joint conections, they are fast and easy to install and pretty reasonable the more you buy. This will make track replacement easier in the future over solder, plus you will be constantly soldering joints as it will break due to extreme heat changins in weather and train vibrations. The only reason why you would want to use the solder method is if you wanted to isolate a track with a switch, then you can take a rail joiner out and replace it with a plastic isolator joiner, then you can solder in your wires from the switch you wanna use on to the track and make a jumper to switch power on and off.
Layout Pics EMD, Thanks again for the info. Yes, many questions and ideas......I have some time this weekend that I plan on doing more reading. I travel for work, and have most of Saturday to dig up info.....Ill try to read more of your posts in other threads. I am in no imediate hurry for the connectors......as I think I am at least another 2 weeks or so before that stage. I will hopefully set the grade stakes today, then need to get the road bed materials chosen and delivered, or go pick them up myself. (ugh) The track will float......not planning to stake that down. And it wont be fastened to anything else along the way. There is also plenty of room for movements along the track right of way. I dont live far from St. Aubins, so I can swing by on the way some time to pick up things as needed. Hillman clamps, etc. What I had figured was to solder some of the connections.....ie, some of the flex track.....maybe 3-4 of the sections at a time. Also, the same with the sectional track in places where I wont/cant expand, then use some of the Hillmans on switches, and bridges, and areas where I may change track layout in the future.. My goal is to have a basic train running by the end of July.....it's a journey.....afterall!!! Not sure if I ever want to be "done" !!!!:tb-wink: I tooks some pics yesterday......and will try to post them. Darryl
Progress EMD, Thanks for the kind words. This project actually began last fall in placing as much fill as I could, in the best areas that I thougt would require filling. That gave it the whole , cold, brutal winter we had here in Illinois to settle out and firm up. I also set some stone last fall in the perimiter. This spring was simply back to working on grade, and the past week I finally had the time to work a lot on it. The grade work is coming together nicely, and I got pretty lucky on the higher end......the grade stakes show that the natural lay of the land where I put the track is almost exactly what I was looking for.....about a 1 1/2 % to 2% grade. The bottom end, will require some fill, and some trestles to get on grade. Since I would like to be able to run trains this summer, I will more than likely build a temperary trestle of some type, and go for nice later. No more work on it will happen for at least a week due to family and work, but I have some good time off later this month to hopefully make another big chunk of progress!!! Comments from any others on the forum are welcome, too!!! Darryl
There is really no need for rail clamps. They do help, but I ran for 18 years with just the Aristo and LGB joiners. You have to use a good conductive grease in the joiners. I got tired of cleaning track so I changed over to battery.
Progress Update Well......it has been a while, so I thought Id finally put some pics up here of what I have been doing. Progress has been a bit slow, as work and mother nature have gotten in the way. My wife and I got the roadbed trenches dug out, and ready to go. These would be the first set of pics. The black pipe is some drain tubing for sump pumps, that I poked a series of slits and holes in to make it work as drainage tile. It all feeds in the trench from high to low, and exits at the lowest part of the track, (right at the "x" in the figure 8. The water would naturally flow down the trench anyway, but I figured a bit more help wouldnt hurt. These pictures were taken the day we got the crushed fines to use for the roadbed. We hauled two pickup loads.....which gave us what we needed, and then some extra for filler and touch up later. Im sure we will get more, but this batch gave plenty to work with for now!! (it was only 93 degrees out that day!! lol ) D
Progress continued After we got the crushed rock in....I watered it in, over a couple of days. I wanted it to settle out as much as possible before putting the track down, and filling in with more fines. This gave me time, also to work on part of the roadbed that was also going to be raised up with the rock. I used a 4 ft. 1 x 4 with some handles as a level to work the roadbed in this raised area, and tamped it with my packer, and watered it in. My biggest concerns was what would the raised portions due with heavy rains, (erosion, etc) and how the trenches would hold up to settling and water. Mother nature provided the answers last night by way of a TORRENTIAL down pour!!! (it also took part of one of my trees.....:tb-sad: ) To my great pleasure, the raised road bed is in outstanding condition.....hard as a rock, and still in form........the rest of the trenches did just as well...and other than fixing a couple low spots, I am confident that I can start putting down the track at the next opportunity! Hopefully that will begin this week........but again, work gets in the way.... D
Bonding agent Also, I have seen references to using a concrete bonding agent for supporting the roadbed gravel/fines. Can anyone give me some actual names of products, and how they are applied??? I dont think at this time I would need them, but would like to do some testing and research........ Thanks in advance...... Darryl
Now this is how a outdoor layout should be built. Everyone who wants to build outside take note. He properly trenched this out which is a bsic step for laying track, but then he went a step further and went advanced by actually installing pipe in the trench which is the best thing you can do. Not only will the trench carry water, but if really pours out, the piping will carry even more out, he even took it further with a sump pump making sure nothing washes out. Water is like hydraulic fluid, not compressible and also just as powerful and cause big damage to such layouts. This layout that is being built should be used as a model on how to get started. Even if you don't lay in pipe, at least trench it 6in x 4in deep and created a french drain. dmiller, great job, you will definately have a layout that will last a long time
dmiller, One article I read was a tip article which many outdoor railroaders use this method I found. They say to use a concrete bonding adhesive, but didn't give any brand names. Then they said to dilute it on a 1:1 ratio with water, then simply just spray it on after mixing it. Thats the best I could come up with when I researched your question.
Construction EMD, Thanks for the kind words! While progress has been a bit slow, I think the work my Wife and I are doing will pay dividends down the road. I have several reference books/materials that I have been using, and feel that if one can read, one can do anything! These G scale references have a wealth of info.....and have been an invaluble source for my planning of this layout. I do need to make a bit of a correction......while I used sump tubing for the drains...there is no sump pump proper.......however.......their will be one of a type, eventually. The drains pipes converge at one of, if not the, lowest part of the layout. Eventually, (hopefully next spring/summer) I will be adding a water feature to the garden area. This will consist of several smaller pools....being fed from an old fashioned hand pump..(in some of the pics, near the windmill) The water will enter a whiskey barrel, then work its way down several small pails, or falls, to holding pools, the lowest of which, will be at the x of the layout. This is where the recuirculating pump would / will be located. So, while not exactly a sump pump, it will act as one! Also, it will give a place for excess water to drain away, as the dry wash will carry any overflow from rains out of this point. Also...thanks for the info on the concrete bonder. Id also be tempted to use simple dilute white glue, but would experiment on an area not in actual use.......just to see what happens. As of now, I think I will just let the fines settle in, and see how it behaves without any additives. D
Project Progress Well, it has been a while, and a lot has happend on the railroad!!! I have had some time between work trips to do some items on the layout. One day was spent laying the track down on the ground level of the layout. Just on a whim, I thought I would take out my transformer and a small switcher, and see what would happen, and low and behold it RUNS!!!!!!!!!! I could only go point to point on 3/4 of the track, as the above ground track was not done, but the little bugger ran smooth as silk! I put on a car and caboose, and the inagural run of the J&D Senic Railway was complete! After a few days of rain and work, I came home and had some help from my brother in law to build the temparary trestle bents for the raised portion of the run. We spent two afternoons, but I now have a completed figure 8! The enclosed pics show some of the layout. More to follow. D
Progress We built the temp trestles from pressure treated lumber......I just wanted to get the thing up and running, and make sure my plans were accurate. Several things have now become apparent in the few short days of operation. First, my small power supply, while fine for one train indoors, will need to be upgraded outdoors. The first run was simply to see if it could run a train on the long track, and it does that fine. However, it wont handle a larger train, for any great length of time. I put my GP30, and some cars on, and it did great, and I was even able to put a smaller engine on, but it tripped the power after about 15 min. or so of operation. No problem...I learned what it can handle. It would run the GP30 for extended times.....but does get pretty warm. It does just fine with the Consolodated steam loco.....but it isnt drawing much with just one or two cars. So.....I am now shopping for a larger power supply.
Progess The next thing I learned so far is that I already want to change the layout!! lol The inner loop I had planned was just not going to work. My brother in law runs Lionel trains, and we talked about how to make it work. I now will put in a full inner loop on one end, so I can run two independent trains at once. This will require a better transformer as well.......and a bit more track, and two more switches. Some of this work will be done this fall....(roadbed), and next sping will see the track. Also....I will work on the trestles, and make them more appealing, strong, and will more than likely use a different wood. The pressure treated is ok, but tends to twist and warp. I will consider some cedar.......but will have to see what the cost is going to be before making that decision. I also learned that my engines........both diesle and steam, run very smoothly!! I am pleased so far with their selections, other than with the GP30 traction wheels. Sure wish they would just be all metal, and not the silly rubber things. Oh well. So, the adventure begins!!!! and continues........!!! Darryl
dmiller, All USA diesel locomotives with the exception of the NW-2 and SW-4 switchers use traction tires. This is due to their light weight which gives them the ability to pull more freight cars vs Aristocraft which uses heavy weights for traction, but due to weight can't pull nearly as many cars. You can change out the axle in these motor blocks to the solid metal axles if you so desire, it's not that hard.
