another odd question here. i have seen b units with gp 7's and 9's, but im wondering if they ever ran with gp 35's. i have lots of atlas-atlas kato gp 30's and 35's along with an aba set of freight kato f7's. im dc and have good luck speedmatching them in pairs. however, i have one atlas-kato gp 35 in the pre '72 dark blue that is slower than the rest, but it mates perfect to the f7 b. were the f's still around when the 35's came out? i believe they were. anyone know if they ran together? thanks...
I don't think they ever deliberately paired them like the GP7's/CF7's and F7B's, but.... Also remember that in the New Mexico potash trains (which were hip deep in '72 on CF7's and F7b's in big cuts) it was a short-lived venture. During that same period of time (72-74) the Superior, NE grain trains were running with huge strings of F-units in all colors and whatever else was handy. Some of the units you'll see that 'look' like single F7B's spliced into odd consists are actually the Locontrol receivers. But I'll also say that its entirely possible it happened and have no evidence to say that it didn't. My own favorite lashup that I couldn't imagine but found later plenty of photographic proof was F7's + SD24's on the Peavine. Yup. And my Atlas SD24 gets along quite well with my Intermountain F's. The only thing you can be sure of is that the ONLY real limitation was gearing. I think the freight units were geared 62:15 (could be wrong, that's from memory not research), on ATSF that is stencilled right on the frame edge under the cab. Because there were at least three and possibly more sets of gearing - conventional freight, compromise units (the one set of F7's with 80 mph) and the 90 mph passenger gearing, you had to pay attention to the gear ratios when setting up a lashup - particularly when F-units were geared all three ways. The 35's were considered 'front line' main line power during the same era that the F7's were decidedly second-string. McMillan notes in his books that the 35's were the only four-axle power normally assigned to the cross-country pools in 1975. That's about the only limit I can see. They show up in a lot of west coast pictures out of Barstow. 35's and F-units were also regularly used on the Peavine so they probably mingled there at least briefly. ATSF did have a very evident policy of putting the newest power on the highest-priority trains, and it's often easy to date a photo by looking at the front end and getting a locomotive identification - your new stuff, your good stuff, was always on the hottest trains. Dogs and drags got everything else. But I do know that as soon as I say 'can't happen' a photo will emerge, its a big railroad, and I've seen way stranger. EDIT: Glanced through some of my McMillan books and my Myrick Arizona books - didn't see any F7B's + GP35's. Did remind me how prevalent the GP35's were on mainline trains though in the 70's-80's. FWIW, I've found that the KATO-built Atlas GP35 mechanism runs great with the original Kato SD45's, U-boats, etc., and the China-built GP35/30 mechanism does nowhere near as well and is also noisier. I repowered my China-built one with a Kato-built one to run MU with my 'big' Kato power. Intermountain-powered F's (not Katos) seem to get along well with new slow-speed Atlas mechanisms (current runs). China-built "Classic" GP30's, 35's, GP7's, etc. all play well together but are too fast to MU with much of anything else. Original Atlas SD50/SD60 (non slow-speed) run way too fast to MU with original-run Kato six-axles unless you throw a bunch of diodes in there to slow them down. I'm doing DC myself, so I've got lots of experience to share on MU'ing and speed-matching lashups. I'm going through the grief of repowereing my Intermountain SD45-2 with a Kato SD40-2 mechanism so that it matches 'dead on' with my original Kato SD45's, so I feel your pain.
i agree with you, its not likely to mate the b's with the 35's. i didn't think about the gearing either. appreciate the info.....
In support of Randqust, here is a visual aide. Check out this website: http://www.railpixs.com/atsf2/atsf2.html Lot's of interesting pictures. To get you started: http://www.railpixs.com/atsf2/ATSF2842_CleburneTx_Dec76.jpg Odd mix but do able: http://www.railpixs.com/atsf2/ATSF2579_nearTempleTx_Nov76.jpg
If you look at this shot (a clean CF7) you can see the "GEAR RATIO 62:15" stencil centered under the cab on the frame edge. http://www.railpixs.com/atsf2/ATSF2572_MilbyStShops_Houston_March80.jpg Another 'ungrounded suspicion' I have is that ATSF did the F7B's later than the F7A's, maybe because the B's had to have control stands and more parts, etc. But there was a disproportionate number of surviving F7B's in the 1970's still operating compared to the A's as the CF7 program moved forward, and those B-units were very typically paired with GP7's, 9's, and the rebuilt CF7's. Lots of photos of those east and south of the rockies - particularly Texas, Oklahoma, etc. One of my other favorites - Erie Lackawanna - had NO FAVORITISM and I've got personal shots of SD45-2's running with F7B's on normal merchandiser trains - in 1974. They'd also regeared their E-units down to run in freight, and I saw those as well, just not MU'd as much.
thanks rick and rangust for this info. love those old photo's, reminds me of my younger days. sure miss seeing the santa fe come by my neck of the woods. i remember a big santa fe wreck in my hometown of comanche, tx. i think it was in 1973 or 1974. a milk truck didnt quiet make it across when the train hit it. it derailed 5 engines and some cars. there was at least one f7 b unit in that wreck, i do remember that. there was another southbound train waiting in the siding about where the wreck stopped. i remember seeing a windbreaker jacket caught in one of the cab doors blowing in the wind. looks like a trainman may have been in a hurry to get out!
Was an engineer on the old Slaton Division from 1972 until 1977. Wasn't that uncommon to have 8-10 F-7 a&b's, gp 7&a few gp9's, CF7's F7b and gp7 slugs/slaves. If memory serves me right, the primary power connections were different on the early units, don't ever remember seeing a gp35 or a gp20 in a working consist of the early EMD's.
This may be the explanation.... makes sense to me. Over on the Yahoo groups regarding MU'ing GP's with newer GP's. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ATSF/message/18784 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ATSF/message/18800 I do have to admit I'm now puzzled by the shot in "Santa Fe to Phoenix" (Myrick) of the ABBA/SD24 laship shot pulling a train up the Peavine, unless the SD24 was being towed. I thought they'd been delivered with the earlier version of the high MU cables (same generation as the GP's) and converted sometime in the 70's but apparently....not?
Yeah, I can't see all the locomotive numbers, but it's F7A/F?B/F?B/F?A/SD24/SD24 coming around a curve, late 1960's. I'd looked at that as being a 'wow, never saw that before!' shot, now I'm thinking it was either a) two crews or b) SD24's under tow. I knew that the older GP's had high-mounted MU recepticals on the handrails to work with the F's, but I didn't realize that the sanders and dynamic brakes were different between the early GP's and the late GP's.
The key to understanding the less then obvious, when it comes to an odd or unusal photo Ie., the one in question. Santa Fe would add on a set of locomotives to the head end of a train in a motive power move. In other words moving locomotives dead in train to a location where the power can be cut out and put on the head end of another train. You could see sets of locomotives that weren't ordinarily MU'd together moving across the vast expanses of the Santa Fe railroad. Another reason for such a move is locomotives that died in train, requiring another set of locomotives to pull them in. Does that help?
