"I looked at DCC and stayed DC!" I am a firm belever of DCC not being right for everyone. yes it does remove most of the block wireing. yes it does make locomotive operation smoother when haveing many units together and yes you can run many seprate units on one track without any additional wiring. But what use is that on a small layout where only one or two trains are being run with only one unit each. I think one of the major down sides to DCC is that the DCC cards fry so easly. I have had Video Accleration Cards for a computer sit out in the open for days and nothing happens to them. I heard that some DCC decoders go out when ever power is cut to them. At $24 or more a pop that tend would tend to be expensive after awhile. Plus the cost just to get the systems. $200 ouch. I barely paid $30 for a Railpower 1400 plus I heard that these system packs also tend to go out. I guess the main turnoff to me was the trainshow I went to awhile back when some group (I dont remeber the name) had a layout set up but couldn't run anything because there controlers had gone out. If I pay $200 or more for something I expect it to work. I have 6 powered units. none are "DCC ready" 4 of those are AThearns 2 are Bachmann Pluses (One I like one I hate)Those would be a pain in the a** to convert. plus I dont have the money to buy 6 decoders I barely had enough money to buy some of my units. I Dont think DCC is a bad thing. The technology will get better as time goes on (just like anything else electroinic in the world)And for large layouts I think its a good idea because of all the wireing you would be avoiding. But the cost and the reliablity are whats keeping me out of it. ------------------ Theres no such thing as having to many coal hoppers or GP40-2 when you model Chessie System LONG LIVE THE KITTEN!!! LONG LIVE BIG BLUE!!! I looked at DCC... and stayed DC!
You are right, DCC is not an absolute necessity to enjoy your railroad. I had fun for 20 years with just a basic power pack. For me, a gadget guy, DCC is just another toy to play with. I had the MRC DCC system, and liked my MRC 9500 power pack better, but after getting the NCE system I changed my mind. I really enjoy it, but will enjoy it more when it goes wireless. If the whole system burned up today and I had to go back to DC, it would not hurt my feelings too much though, because their is so many other aspects of the hobby I have yet to try... Operating Sessions, Switching Puzzles, Prototypical operations, and more. ------------------ Robert Ray The NP & UP N-Scale Railroad
I can see where you're coming from. While i currently am not running DCC it will be my control system. I may have to scrimp and save, but i'm pretty sure it will be worth it. Heck, i'm already installing and buying decoders. (The models aren't finished though, don't worry) And i'm already planning the DCC wiring for the new layout.
Thought I'd add my two cents worth. I am a signal electrician by trade and now a Signal Engineer we use DCC technology in all forms on our system, my home layout is DC. I chose DC for several reasons being I'm familiar with wiring control systems etc. I have had no faults on my layout over the past 4 years. Although DCC certainly can enhance a layout I feel to retrofit 30 or so locomotives would be very expensive. sure if the DCC units were easily fitted I'd think about it but having to get chassis milled etc is beyond me. I'm sure in a few more years all new locomotives will be DCC ready then maybe i will have to jump to DCC but sometimes it is worthwhile to learn the basic before tackling new technology. ------------------ http://users.bigpond.net.au/railroad2000
Well, DCC has opened doors for many people allowing control of operating headlights and ditchlights and giving them MU control of units that they could never have run together without DCC. It also allows 'cornfield meets' where two locos can hit head on at speed. There are so many possible applications that it almost boggles the mind. Now, that said, it is very likely that I shall never upgrade my railroad to DCC. Why? It's small and I am almost always the only operator. I only run one loco at a time with short consists (with the exception of an occassional stall where a rescue loco is needed). I can switch a yard while someone runs the main if necessary. But I expect that the biggest reason is that I am just now bringing the RR up to late 80s standards. I won't live long enough to bring to Y2K and I am in no hurry to do so. I support DCC 100 percent as the wave of the future and for what it has already done for the hobby. I just don't expect to ever make use of it myself. Roger Roger Hensley - rhensley@anderson.cioe.com == http://cid.railfan.net/eci_new.html == == East Central Indiana Railroad ==
Hmmm, I read through the stuff that was said, but I still think DCC is good, unless you have a smaller layout. If you have anything with more than 3 moving trains at a given time I think DCC is better, as it requires more thought in terms of how the prototype runs, instead of where your blocks are. Example- (BTW-this is true ) DC layout "Dane, run to the end of your block." Okay, there was a local working in the next block I had to taker, but there was NO part of the train in my way. In fact it was on a siding, switching an industry. It was just the darn switch!! Now, with DCC with a similar layout "BCR Extra 757 (me), procede to Flying U" Now, I know you don'y know the alyout, but I basically by passed the train. These layouts are very similar, and it is a good demo. to show why DCC can be better in alot of cases. Happy Railroading! Dane N. ------------------ BC Rail King BCRailKing@Canada.com InternationalRegion@tamr.org for TAMR info. Dane_Nicholson@tamr.org http://www.tamr.org
Ok, I'll chime in now. Although I wouldn't call my loco fleet large (about 15) , it is for my wallet. I'd say it would cost me too much to retrofit about 80% of said fleet with new frames to go DCC. No thanks, I'll stay with DC untill I hit those magic SIX numbers. ------------------ BNSF RAILFAN-TO-THE-MAX! Brent Tidaback, Member #234 and a N-Scaler to boot!
This is getting interesting, a good thread. I went to DCC because I have a large layout and am electrically challenged. I also have an old laptop computer that I will be setting up to control some of my trains, thereby I can run a train and have to adhere to a schedule, since I am a single operator most of the time, it becomes much more interesting. ------------------ When in doubt, empty your magazine.
This is indeed an interesting thread, however I need to point out, that in order to make a rational choice between DC and DCC, you need to be able to cut through all the DIS-information that's out there (and here). (Components blow up) DCC systems are no more fragile than your DC powerpacks. Our club has fried three tech II's in the last year at shows. If your components are properly installed, you don't have any unusual problems. (I have to convert my entire fleet of locos) You don't have to decoder every one of your fleet of locos...any analog loco will run on address 00. I wouldn't recommend parking your loco on a "hot" siding for any length of time, but running it is no problem. (It's too expensive) Nobody has an all brass loco fleet. You make do with what works for you. Pick a system that is the right size, the right features, and the right price for you. You can get into a great DCC system for under 200.00, and a good one for about 100.00, if you shop around! If you're interested in DCC, get with someone who already has a system in place, and get the correct facts, don't just listen to rumors... But above all else, do what's right for you! And have fun! MOPAC 1
I too think that DCC is great for someone who can afford to change over or for someone just starting in the hobby,but for an oldtimer like me(27yrs.in the hobby)I do just fine with block controls. I have a 2x3ft. N-Scale portable layout that I take to work with me. Eat your heart out you guys. Any way,the way I have it set up,I can run trains in opposite directions,and depending upon what kind of lashups I have going, I can run about six locos at one time, and have four to six more on sidings waiting to move. Works just fine for me.
I have gotten with someone that has a fully operational system. Thats how I came to my opinion. Also what I said was not rumor. this is stuff I have seen with my own eyes. ------------------ Theres no such thing as having to many coal hoppers or GP40-2 when you model Chessie System LONG LIVE THE KITTEN!!! LONG LIVE BIG BLUE!!! I looked at DCC... and stayed DC! [This message has been edited by Chessie_SD50_8563 (edited 02 August 2000).]
Ok Thomas, I must have the track plan of your 2 by 3 layout. What type of job do you have that allows you to take it to work? You must have a better job than GATS lol. I could probably build one for myself to use during my lunch break ------------------ http://users.bigpond.net.au/railroad2000
Colonel,the job I have I waited almost a life time for. I work for a small city water dept.at their pump station. They only work one person per shift so that means I'm free to do whatever I like while I'm pressing a few buttons to turn pumps on and off. I work two grave yard shifts,and all day Sat. and Sun. There's a lot of time to get bored to death,so I made this little portable layout to keep me amused. The actual size is 32in. by 45in. a bit bigger than I previously stated. It has to fit behind my seat in my pickup,which is not an extended cab. Because of this there is no ground cover or anything permanently mounted to the board,which is 1/4 in. plywood. So far I've built two buildings that I also take with me to give it as much realism as possible. The layout consists of two loops,one inner and one outer. The inner loop has three sidings,and the outer loop has one siding. I put magnetic uncouplers on each siding and I have a total of six blocks for DC operation. This little thing helps me kill time doing what I love to;run trains,and do a little switching. [This message has been edited by thomas (edited 02 August 2000).]
. ------------------ BC Rail King BCRailKing@Canada.com InternationalRegion@tamr.org for TAMR info. Dane_Nicholson@tamr.org http://www.tamr.org "I was DC, and went DCC!"
I run large scale, outdoors. My layout is fully blocked with two radio cab (Aristo TE) and works fine. I added DCC for the gadget value and grew to really like it. When the system is working properly, I get much better low speed control, generally better tractive effort (back-emf decoders) and remote sound control. However, there is a downside. DCC works fine on clean track, but as the track gets dirty, it craps to an unusable level faster than DC. On very dirty track, the DC trains still sort of run, but the DCC engines freak out converting back and forth from analog to DCC all the time. As far as reliability goes, as long as I stay away from Digitrax decoders, the hardware seems pretty reliable. Even the largest Digitrax decoders burn up too easily and just don't match their advertised ratings. A 2.5 amp Lenz decoder or 3 amp Zimo decoder works MUCH better in a loco that won't run on a 5 amp Digitrax unit. Remember that a heavily loaded large scale loco can draw 3 amps average with a stall current exceeding 7 amps. Some two motor locos have stall currents of 15 amps PER MOTOR which makes it impractical to use any existing decoder. Overall DCC is effective even if it really needs cleaner track that you can get away with with DC power. ------------------ - gws
My experience with DCC is good. In the 1960's 1970's and into 1980's I ran various versions of straight dc block control, including memory throttles, etc. but the wiring was always a maze because of changes, expansions, etc. In late 1980's I cut over to Dynatrol control system. Installed around 45 receivers and pulled out all the block control and wiring. Liked Dynatrol though limited to 18 channels, so still had to have kill switches on some tracks to store trains so I could use duplicate channel numbers. The current 3 deck railroad was started in 1989 modeling Santa Fe in 1989. Two years ago I moved into Dynatrol wireless, then started using the hybrid Dynatrol/DCC wireless which let me run Dynatrol receivers and DCC decoders at the same time. Of course the DCC decoders were dual signature (ac-dc) and twice as expensive as regular decoders. Finally bit the bullet, took some dividend money and converted to NCE in one fell swoop. that meant installing about 45 new decoders, purchasing a total of 12 plug in throttles, removing the dynatrol and placing the command station and boosters in its place. Along the way I fried a few decoders because of my own ignorance. Only two were fried that could not be explained. Have been up on the DCC system for 8 months, love it, would never go back. It is smooth, I haven't had components fried, or failed, am anxious for the wireless radio throttles, but the DCC really shines during operating sessions. All of my local operating group are running either dcc or railcommand, and I doubt any would go back to the old days. that is my experience and I am sticking with it. Bob Miller
I remember as a kid reading the Dynatrol ads in MR and imagining how great of a way that would be to run a layout... The hobby has come so far I can't wait for what comes next.
