Expansion project.....

Keith May 4, 2010

  1. EMD trainman

    EMD trainman TrainBoard Member

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    Now it's time to end the way this post has gotten so far off track.

    PLEASE READ: Do not post any other NON SUBJECT MATERIAL to this post.

    ANY OTHER CONCERNS OR QUESTIONS ABOUT RULES OR POLICIES PLEASE SEND THEM IN A PM

    ALL NON SUBJECT MATERIAL TO THIS POST WILL BE DELETED.

    From here on this post must go in the direction it was intended, Keith's outdoor layout.
     
  2. Stourbridge Lion

    Stourbridge Lion TrainBoard Supporter

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    Keith, please continue your progress reports and photo's, there are allot of us here at TrainBoard that are enjoying and learning from this topic.

    P.S. I tend to just use the term "LHS" (Local Hobby Store) in posts vs. the real store name.

    :tb-biggrin: :tb-biggrin: :tb-biggrin: :tb-biggrin:​
     
  3. Flash Blackman

    Flash Blackman Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    IMHO, the easiest bridge is a through deck girder. For G scale I would probably use a 2 x 4 (inches) to span the gap. Then add the scratch built or kitbashed plate girders on the outside and ballast the deck. Other type bridges are more intricate and do take time. Of course, you also do not want a whole layout of deck girder bridges.
     
  4. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member

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    I was referring to the delicate-looking wood pile bridges that decorate many G scale layout magazines. They take a long time to build, I can imagine, and require jigs, and loads of patience.
     
  5. EMD trainman

    EMD trainman TrainBoard Member

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    There is a company that came out with a jig for building trestle bends for bridges and cuts the time in half. I think they even supply the wood, the jig keeps everything in place so it can be glued and or nailed. Those interested in the trestle jig can check out my G Scale Manufactures directory in the archives of the G scale section.
     
  6. dmiller

    dmiller TrainBoard Member

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    Bridges

    Well........I think one would be suprised how EASY it is to build the trestle bents.....the jig was easier.....if one has some basic skills....and a decent set of tools for the job.....
    I used a miter box, (powered, but hand would work), and had the trestle bents built in a couple hours, after sawing the wood. The best tool was the brad nailer......glue..nail...remove bent, and turn over in jig.....add opposite pieces....glue...nail.......let dry, done.

    They LOOK intimidating......but are really pretty easy.......imho.

    D
     
  7. Keith

    Keith TrainBoard Supporter

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    I am NOT interested in building trestles!!
    For the location, I want something else.
    Still gotta figure out where I can get an 18" trestle
    on a 10 foot diameter curve.
     
  8. JASON

    JASON TrainBoard Supporter

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    Keith,
    I would like to see a couple pic's,abit of an update. Been watching with inspiration!Keep up the great work.
     
  9. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member

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    Is a 5' radius tight in G scale?
    It's a dream radius in N!
     
  10. EMD trainman

    EMD trainman TrainBoard Member

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    That is very tight althought there is 4ft diameter in G scale. The best radius to have inside is 8ft diameter and you can run almost anything. If you are going outside over 10ft is a plus, some like to run 20ft diameter outside but the outside seems to avaerage at 16ft diameter. These big large super curves are needed for the USA Trains Big Boy. Plus in G since the trains are so heavy, the bigger the diameter radius of track you use, the less drag you put on the train in a curve, also in the same token having Roll EZ ball bearing metal wheel sets also helps with the drag in curves.

    For those who want to run a G scale around a Christmas tree 4ft or 5ft is fine, but you are very limited to what trains you can run.

    For more info on G scale trains drag into curves and why products like Roll EZ metal wheel sets solve this problem you can read the "Are Ball Bearing metal wheels worth the money" in the G scale section. It gives you info on why standard wheels drag into curve and how Roll EZ solved this problem. Our good friend dennisirrnie also got involved into the conversation there.
     
  11. Keith

    Keith TrainBoard Supporter

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    I've currently got a 4 foot Radius = 8 foot Diameter curve in back.
    The 70MAC will run out back, alone. Car directly behind locomotive WILL
    derail, due to extreme couple overhang. Curves are bare minimum for the
    MAC and the K-27.

    Running 5 foot Radius = 10 foot Diameter curves out front.
    The K-27 runs, and looks great! The 70MAC runs better, and cars behind locomotive
    do not derail, as much. Turnout position was a source of trouble though.
    With redsign and lengthening of track, problem should be solved.
    Have to redo ballast on redone track, so have not had chance to retest things.

    Yeah, IF I had a larger space to work with, I'd certainly be using a larger curve.
    I'm trying to shoehorn what I can into the space I have available to me!
    I'm extremely lucky to have what I do have currently!
     
  12. EMD trainman

    EMD trainman TrainBoard Member

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    If you are runnin a USA Trains SD-70MAC with USA Trains knuckles couplers that loco does come with a 8ft diameter curve retrofit kit that must be installed. Although even with that I still had problems and actually made a modified version of the USA Trains coupler thats works just fine.
     
  13. Keith

    Keith TrainBoard Supporter

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    Gotta change couplers at some point.
    Once I find out what coupler is gonna work.
     
  14. HemiAdda2d

    HemiAdda2d Staff Member

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    I suppose Micro-Trains 1015's don't count here, huh? ;)

    Just like in any scale--compression leads to limiting your choice of equipment. On my N scale hollow core door (HCD) layout, my min curve is 14", and mainline is 15.5". I can run a Challenger, but it sure looks funny. The passenger trains also run, but look silly with the overhangs. I have to stick with 70'scale foot cars and locos, or shorter. 4-axle power and 50' cars look best on those curves.

    In your case, Keith, I would stick to the Grande's 4-axle hot rods--the Geep fleet.
    Sure that SD70 is nice, but if it causes such operational headaches, save it for larger layouts.
    Is a good quality GP40 available in G?
     
  15. Keith

    Keith TrainBoard Supporter

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    Aristo is the onloy one that makes 'em.
    Got one at each of my NSLHS - Not So Local Hobby Shop.
    Scale KD 831's are what I need! But, for the MAC, I don't know!
    Don't know about the K-27 either.

    Sidings, when done, will handle a single unit, and 6-7 cars and caboose.
    Anything longer, could be a source of trouble. But, I really do NOT want to drop even more money into the cars, just to add ball bearings! Not sure it's worth the cash outlay!
    And yes, I have read the bearing thread!
     
  16. EMD trainman

    EMD trainman TrainBoard Member

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    If you think your SD-70MAC thorws cars off once in a while now, try and pull USA Trains 55ft freight cars. They will definately come off even with the 8ft conversion kit installed running on 8FT diameter curves and USA Trains knuckle couplers. When I get home I will take a few pics of my modified USA Trains coupler on my SD-70MAC that actually worked and post it here. I only did one coupler on the rear of the back loco since I knew I wasn't going to push any freight cars
     
  17. Keith

    Keith TrainBoard Supporter

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    Due to the small layout space I have, and to help make trains look
    longer, I'm running 40 foot cars only. Plus, I really have no place to keep trains when not in use! Basement walls are full of N Scale and 3 Rail stuff!
     
  18. krs

    krs TrainBoard Member

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    I think you have radius and diameter mixed up.
    All USA Trains engines except the BigBoy will negotiate 8-foot diameter curves, the BigBoy requires 16 foot diameter curves.
    The basic curve in G-scale is designated R1, it has a 600mm radius which is equivalent to about 4 foot diameter (or a 2 foot radius).
    There is a manufacturer in Germany who offers 45mm track in R0 radius, that's 422mm ( or 33 inches diameter) - that's good for field railways
    gerade Gleise - Modellbau-Werkstatt Bertram Heyn e.K.

    LGB years ago established an edict for that firm that every piece of their rolling stock including long cars and locomotives must be able to negotiate R1 or 4 foot diameter curves. That led to some interesting designs like their Mikado locomotive.

    Larger curves of course look much better, but for narrow gauge prototypes, which is what LGB modelled for many, many years, the curves in real life are also a lot tighter than for standard gauge. The tightest curve of the RhB Bernina narrow gauge line in Switzerland has a radius of 45 meters (or 148 feet). That would be 6.6 scale feet in G scale.
    Anyone know what the tightest standard gauge radius is in the US?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernina_Railway

    [​IMG]
     
  19. EMD trainman

    EMD trainman TrainBoard Member

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    What did I do???? Why??? Looks like I goofed again. I must have been really tired when I wrote that, now that I see it I feel dumb. I definately know the difference between the radius and diameter, but needing sleep, over working and thinking don't mix. Yes ALL USA Trains and Aristocraft curved track are rated in Diameter feet, not radius feet, my typo. I went back and edited my original post.

    On another note: USA Trains and Aristocraft standard switches are only 4ft diameter, the X-Wide switches are 10ft diameter. I'm not sure what the #6 switch diameter curve is however. I have all X-Wide switches on my layout.
     
  20. krs

    krs TrainBoard Member

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    I see this mix up between radius and diameter in Large Scale fairly often. It's not that people don't know the difference, but - I think - it's because LGB has always used radius to measure curves and people were used to that.
    Not only that, when I was in H0, the dimension of H0 curved track was also always listed by radius not by diameter and all model railroad standards use radius.

    I would love to know what prompted Aristo and USAT to make such an unnecessary change.
     

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