I've got a couple questions, hope these are easy ones for you guys. 1) I've got a orange/black freight C-Liner which caboose matches it era-wise? A silver steel cupola caboose from Minitrix A boxcar red wooden cupola caboose from Microtrains A orange steel (no ribs) bay window caboose from Loco Motves 2) What pulled/pushed the bilevel commuter cars and was there any other types of cars attached on their runs to Chicago and which paint job did they have (engines and cars)?
Usually an E-unit pulled the commutes, with an occasional FP-9 unit. Almost all of them were painted in the UP Yellow/Grey paint scheme from the late 50's on. On rare occasion's, MILW had a couple GP-9's fitted with steam generators that were painted in the UP Scheme in later years and you could see them too! Rarely was a MILW private car attached to the end of a commuter, but it may have happened.
Thanks for the info guys. I got a great deal on a sound decoder, found out it was for the C-Liner not the EMD it was advertised as. So I bought the C-Liner. To me it sounds like the turbo is always screaming, did these have turbo? I also have the C&NW Historical Society Diesel Sounds CD there is a baby Trainmaster on it, they sound nothing like each other. Should the C-Liner sound similar to the Trainmaster?
I have seen consist lists that show commuter cars mixed in with the normal passenger consists...especially on "extra" trains, like football specials, shriners specials, ect. ......but you didn't see standard coaches (or anything else) mixed into the commuter trains very often. On the cabooses, any of the 3 types you listed were still around in the late 50's, but by then they were all orange......and the wood ones were few and far between. So Boxcab is correct. The C-liner and baby trainmaster had the same size 1600 hp engine......unless your decoder has the 2400 hp version of the c-liner programed into it. The engines used to pull the commuter cars were all fitted/retro-fitted with electric generators instead of the steam generators used with the passenger fleet. Kurt is correct about the models used.
I asked about the other passenger cars mixed in because of the C&NW Baggage Tap/Diner cars on some of the longer runs. Were the Gallery cars always electric? The first order for the C&NW did use steam.
I can't find any reference to the commuter cars ever using steam on the Milwaukee Road. I dug out my passenger train books and I did find consists with standard coaches listed. Also express boxcars and express/storage cars.....but no food service cars. Found a football special from 1965 that listed 8 bi-level cars, 4 standard coaches and 1 parlor/diner car (forest grove) and a second with 7 bi-levels,2 coaches, a diner and a diner lounge My guess is the trip from Milwaukee to Chicago wasn't long enough to need food service. And the Road made heavy use of the commuter cars on specials and excursion trains on the weekends when they weren't needed for commuter service......and ANYTHING was fair game on those.
The Baggage Tap Diner cars on the C&NW were used as "coffee shops" in the mornings serving only coffee and pastries. On the ride back out to the 'burbs they served drinks and snacks. I thought I had seen a similar Milwaukee train with a single level diner. It might have been a BN train. (I know the paint jobs aren't close, but it was long ago.) Thanks again everybody for all the information.
Thought I'd pose another question here. I've been studying the Milwaukee's diesel roster (talk about alphabet soup), and I'm just curious what, if anything, could have been considered a typical diesel consist on the Coast an Rockey Mountain divisions, as some of the photos show quite widely varied lashups.
Until quite late in their history, there was no typical diesel consist on the transcontinental mainline. With the exception of the stretch from Othello to Avery, the trains were normally electric. The first diesels between Othello and Avery were ABCD sets of FT's. There were also some F3 ABA sets on the coast. These were followed by GP9's. There were also a bunch of SD7's on the branch lines. The main was still electric, but the Road figured out a way to MU diesels to the Lil Joes, and you could see several GP9's running in consist with the electric. When they tore down the overhead electrics, they used the bigger SD's , although they never had anything bigger than 45's. Dispite the wide array of loco's, many models never made it west of Harlowton.
Well, the mainline, of course, and more during the seventies once diesels started being used more frequently on the mainline to the coast,
Actually, diesels could have been seen regularly on the electrified Coast. Locals transiting the main to their branches. GP9's, SD7's AND SD9's. Even SW1200 and NW2 made appearances- Daily between Tacoma Junction and Black River, then on to Seattle. (Black River to Seattle was considered to be a branch line.) On the RMD, an SW1200 roamed from Missoula to Schilling and back, almost daily. Also the same unit would do the Bonner Line job from Missoula to Bonner Junction. Also note that the MU capability for diesels to electrics was also in place on Boxcabs, not just Joes. Then there were the original 1960's XL Specials/Thunderhawks (the origins of Trains 261/262) with their GP30 and B-Boat (U25B) power. They did run through. Remember that starting in 1959, the RMD extended to Miles City. Then diesel trains off the old NMD were in and out of Harlowton daily. As the Coast Division electrification was winding down, (later 1960's to 1972 and on), diesels would run through. GP 40's, GP 35's. Even when the RMD electrification was still in service, diesels were running through there, no electric. The Joes, even on point, were many times almost more of a helper. They'd tack a single Joe on at Harlowton and off at Avery, those same diesels continuing on to Tacoma. Many diesels made it west of Miles City. Even an ALCo S2 switcher or two, and at least one RS1. FT, F3, F7, GP9 with and without DB, passenger, SW1, TR A&B, SW1200, NW2, SD7, SD9, SD10, U23B, U25B, U28B, U30B, U33C, U36C, GP38-2 (with and without dynamics), GP35, GP40, SD40-2, SD45, GP20, GP30 and.......
Why do I get the feeling that was slightly sarcastic? Anyway, I just wanted a feel of what typical mainline lashups would have been through the 70s, but it seems in generally they used SD40-2s or GP40s when the Little Joes were still operating, and then primarily SD40-2s after full dieselization with eventually a lot of U-Boats showing up on the coast in the later 70s.
If referencing my post, how was it sarcastic? There was not a darned thing sarcastic contained. I was typing out a bunch of random recollections and memories of years past. It's been a long time for me. Many bits and pieces to pull of from the fog of time. Initially your inquiry was a bit nebulous. Second time, you asked about the main line, 1970's. I answered- It could be a hodge podge, even when the electrics were running. That was what I was trying to illustrate, without creating a literary marvel. Not just SD40-2 and GP40 with Joes. There were plenty of times their SD45 and even a U36C were have been seen coupled behind a Joe. What I noted about the Joe on point being essentially a helper, is true and I had more than just one MILW trainman note such to me. Instead of being cut into the train, as they did not have any equipment such as locotrol on the electrics... Which in those days would probably have failed anyhow due to interference. It was not just electrics in electrified territory, that's the point. Which is why I mentioned trains using from an SW on up to major road power. Many make a mistaken conclusion about such events. The list of diesels I typed was a fact. During the last months of electrics, it had really become a mix. They even had a set of GP30 units stationed at Haugan as helpers near the very end. My noting the RMD change in 1959 is important. Focusing on electrics, many associate the RMD as Harlowton and west to Avery, to the end. The B U-boats showed up out west, early 1960's when 261/262 were new. They disappeared after a short time. Came back again, thinned out again and then were sent back in force after the fatal winter of 1978. U33C units, all four were sent new out west and were made famous for destroying light rail branch lines. Including a noted big pileup in downtown Duvall, WA, on the Everett Line. Nothing sarcastic contained above. It's all fact to consider when trying to picture what once was.
U33C's on branchlines Dear Ken, Is this level of management decision indicative of some dim bulbs running the company during its last decade? I have no knowledge of engineering or rail structure but could not imagine putting a heavy unit like that on branch rails. Not without testing. Because and SD9 or and RSC could do it, was it assuned the U boat could, also? -Mark
It was just an overwhelming amount of information for 1 post, and I thought I was being blitzed for asking a redundant question. I find the oddest combination, though, would have been seeing an SW on a road freight, since most other railroads would likely consider them switch engines.
The locos are assigned based on the horsepower needed to move the train. So it is possible to see any combination as long as the locos are compatible connection wise. Another reason is that you need the loco needs to be in another place. Why not use the power it has, rather than just haul it there. Locos with incompatible control connections can be used but must be manned. There can be problems with timing, just like using unmatched locos.
I am not alone in wondering what they were thinking. But when new, the U33C units were initially assigned to branch line service. The Everett Line. The Bellingham Lines. And they also roamed others. They were also grabbed and used on the transcontinental main line. You might see them rumbling into Avery on a dead freight off the Coast, then turning right around to head back west. It was their use on the Everett Line which pounded those rails into oblivion. I would need to get out my profiles, but at that time what I recall is mostly 72 and 75 pound rails. Couple those engines to the new 100 ton chip cars and curves were kicked out, rails broken and spread, ties crushed.
I'm sorry if it seemed like a lot. It's not a redundant question. If you are curious and want to learn, just ask. But, that is what was needed to depict not just what I saw, but how it actually was operated. One day you might think you were seeing modern power assigned as needed by horsepower, another you would see a mish-mash as they cobbled together whatever could be found. From a combination of a GP40, SD40-2, SD45 and U36C, to five GP40 engines, to three SD40-2, to a GP40, a GP35, and SD7/9/10 combo, I saw it roll by. Despite new engines, with maintenance deferred and as the post-BN merger traffic levels rose, significantly, even after receiving all the SD40-2 engines, they were often chronically power short. The CRP of GP9 to GP20 and SD7/9 to SD10 helped stretch funds and keep things better to close. But even after the MP15AC's came, they were still short. After the 1978 winter debacle, they couldn't function anywhere near close enough. It was not just failure to maintain track, but also lack of decent power. It was simply unpredictable and became ever more so as time ran out. Maybe a railfan's delight, yet... Oh how I should have had my camera at hand, when my employer had us working along the MILW between Black River and Auburn for the best part of two years, 77-78. But we were just too busy and I would have been in rather hot water. I could have had some interesting pictures. A near cornfield meet (UP local vs MILW Tr 202(?) at Willis Street in Kent, any daily MILW action, X-135 doing piledriver service, UP action including DD35 and..... *Sigh* Thinking back on what I could have captured, my getting fired might have been worth while!
