E&E RR Layout: SUggestions Most Welcome

JKeenan0407 Nov 19, 2012

  1. JKeenan0407

    JKeenan0407 TrainBoard Member

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    After gazooks amount of time thiink'n and tinker'n and tearing up previous plans, this is what I've come up with in the granted guest bedroom space with some objectives:

    • Be able to run some decent length trains to watch 'em run, thus a double track.
    • Industries for operations.
    • Yard that can have trains come and go and be able to make up and break down trains for operations.
    • A river runs through it.
    • Elevated track and mountains to somewhat model the rr line in the Cascade area.


    Color of track:

    Yellow = Elevated track line
    Green = Under hills/mountains, etc
    Pink: bridges over troubled waters
    Dark Blue: Let me know if this is ok. Wanted to be able to have trains come through yard and two exit points from yard.
    Light Blue: Engine area, roundtable, etc.

    Feel free to fire away with what's not okay, etc.

    NewRoomNov 01#6 copy (1).jpg
     
  2. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    One thing I'm wondering about is your yard. The only way for a train to use it is from one direction, and by backing in.
     
  3. mhampton

    mhampton TrainBoard Member

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    What's the reasoning behind the S-curves at the top of the plan? They add some unnecessary (though minor) complexity. Also, without seeing where walls are it is hard to say for sure, but you might have a few reach problems with the widths you have specified. Nice long running possibilities, though.
     
  4. JKeenan0407

    JKeenan0407 TrainBoard Member

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    Yard Question: Welcome to any suggestion for a better design. When I've looked at other yards on layouts the yards have been one way it seems or I'm looking at them wrong. I thought with this design there is a way for trains (most of mine won't be longish) to exit both ways by using the "tail" to store the train since and then exit towards the top. Can't figure out space for staging tracks.

    "S curves at the top, go around a wall. See new photo. Added walls as different color.
     
  5. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    If you head a train into any of those yard tracks, a stub end yard, there is no way to cut off the engine and let it escape. Either a yard goat must couple on to the other end of the train and pull it all away, to let an engine out, or the whole thing must be backed out again. You need to add a couple of switches to allow the train power to escape.
     
  6. JKeenan0407

    JKeenan0407 TrainBoard Member

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    Hmmm...can't see how to delete the original pic and post a new one, so here's a jpeg showing the walls in pinkish. The wall jogs thus the S curves in the middle.

    NewRoomNov 01#6 copy.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2012
  7. jaymack1

    jaymack1 New Member

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    What is the max radius on your turns?
     
  8. JKeenan0407

    JKeenan0407 TrainBoard Member

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    The outer loop has all 11" Atlas (2520) radius curves and the inner loop has all 9 3/4 Atlas (2510) curves. All my motive power is 4 axle except for an SD60 (6 axle) and the majority of my rolling stock is 40' box or 39' tank. Attemping to model the pre merger BN and the SP&S in the late 60's. With 11" curve turn around the width is about 24" which gives me about 5" at the back of the 30" for the mountain range in my feeble attempt.
     
  9. mhampton

    mhampton TrainBoard Member

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    The S-curves I was asking about are the ones circled in red in this fragment of your drawing. Perhaps I should have called it a reverse curve. At any rate, the left-right direction changes are pretty close together and could cause some problems with coupling and derailments.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. glakedylan

    glakedylan TrainBoard Member

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    greetings J Keenan

    what software are you using for your track plan? looks familar but not sure if it is AR or not.
    if AR, could you attach the file and I will suggest some things which might improve your plan.
    if not AR i will try to do so with graphic image software, waiting to see your reply.

    respectfully
    Gary L Lake Dillensnyder
     
  11. Cke1st

    Cke1st TrainBoard Member

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    Some thoughts:

    The overall appearance will be effective, with plenty of space between the town scene and the yard scene.

    You could eliminate the S-curves at the top; just leave the yellow elevated track in the back. If you put the lower track in the back, its bridge will be harder to see.

    If you go with right-hand running on the double track, then the only way a train can enter the yard from the outer main is to take the crossover near where it says 65" Wall, and then back in. Backing a long train around that 9-3/4" curve could be trouble. And if there's any problem with the yard's lower entry turnout (the blue one at the bottom), that one is in the worst imaginable place, nearly two and a half feet away from the table edge.

    My suggestion for improving the yard: instead of entering from the bottom, I'd put another entrance point coming off the rightmost yard track, connecting to the main line where the line for Width = 24" is. This will turn your yard into a reversing connection, which will entail some extra wiring. But trains can head into the yard from either direction, and all the yard tracks will be trailing-point connections; a loco can park its train and head for the engine house. The yard entry turnouts will both be easily accessible. Trains will have to back out no matter which way they're going, but there are real yards with that complication.

    The top curve of the dark-blue yard lead looks scary-close to the main line. I foresee some sideswipe incidents.

    I'm very concerned about the S-curves near the 65" Wall, just above the Width = 24" arrow. I'd use half-curve sections with a straight section between them, both to eliminate those S-curves and to break up the relentless 90-degree angles of the plan.

    Scenically, the spurs in your factory town are going to butt right up against the mountain that hides the green track. You may have to shorten some of those spurs to make the scene look realistic.
     
  12. ken G Price

    ken G Price TrainBoard Member

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    From my experience with building my layout: do not use 9 3/4 curves unless only the shortest 4 axle switcher or 0-6-0 switcher is to use it.
    6 axle Diesel engines and long steam will have problems will derailing or pulling the following car off the track. There are a few exceptions, but those may not be engines you want. I ignored this advice when I started. Thinking, well if they make it, it must be OK to use 9 3/4' curves.

    Eleven inches is far far better minimum. I still have some 11" on the main track of my layout and my large diesels and long rolling stock do OK, but I have replaced most of the 11"and all of the 9 3/4". Lots of work over this last year, but worth it.

    A yard crossover for an engines escape at the end of two of the yard tracks would then let trains enter from either end as BoxcabE50 stated or Cke!st idea of an other yard entrance track. You need to do one or the other.
    That's my take on it.
     
  13. BMcClintock

    BMcClintock New Member

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    Hello J Keenan,

    Let me say first I'm still a complete newbie, but I'm intrigued by your trackplan, and
    generally enjoy tinkering with them, if you don't mind. (Good way to learn I suppose).

    http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg178/judexavier/LayoutEE-RRmodsandmusings03Small.jpg

    http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg178/judexavier/LayoutEE-RRmodsandmusingstrackplan.jpg

    I'd love to have a layout this size someday...makes my HCD seem basic and cramped.
    Of course there are a few "fudge" places where some 5" straights would have to be trimmed.
    I tried to follow your plan for the hills and tunnels. The yard *I think* will work in regards to
    switching and getting locos around. That loco-turning wye was something I already had bashed together,
    and you had the room, so, why not? :) (Maybe a turn-table would be better).
    As for the rest of it, I just made it up, probably nothing like you're planning, mainly just to
    fill in the space. :)
    One thing I thought of, instead of having your yard at the bottom, you might be able to make
    a nice two-ended yard along the bottom of the big 85" shelf, underneath the "width = 30" text in your
    drawing. Perhaps utilizing both mains. Then a nice industry or town in place of the current yard.

    Oh well, enough of my distractions. Looking forward to your plan and build.
     
  14. JKeenan0407

    JKeenan0407 TrainBoard Member

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    Away for Turkey Day. Back Monday and will reply to the helpful suggestions.

    Have a peaceful and thankful holiday..
     
  15. paulus

    paulus TrainBoard Member

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    Hi Keenan,
    I would always add staging to a larger layout like yours. A loop to terminal and loop design is quite possible, with a huge mainly double track oval included; when you just like them to make miles.
    Operating the terminal can be done without fouling the main.
    Tracks are laid out in a way to get an as long as possible mainline.
    The passing siding is now near the industrial district (Bohemian Flats and Milling District), so serving both facing and trailing spurs is possible.
    Food for thoughts
    [​IMG]
    Smile
    paul
     
  16. JKeenan0407

    JKeenan0407 TrainBoard Member

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    Gary,

    I'm using SCARM freeware. If you want to give it a go, I can email you the SCARM file to play with.

    Open to suggestions for sure.

     
  17. JKeenan0407

    JKeenan0407 TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks, but due to room restrictions no can do that island as there's other furniture in that space, thus the s curve around the wall.

    And as a newbie, I'm staying away from reversing loops to avoid the wiring challenge AND the cost of whatever digitrax stuff would be needed.

    Cheers
     
  18. JKeenan0407

    JKeenan0407 TrainBoard Member

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    Thanks for the visual ideas. What software did you use?

    Will look at the Y idea but first have to read how it works wiring wise and also how to construct one.
     
  19. BMcClintock

    BMcClintock New Member

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    JKeenan0407,

    I'm just using Photoshop. I Cannot seem to grasp the various "CAD" programs, not bashing them, I'm just an old guy who reverts to old ways :).
    Little template bits scanned and scaled from Atlas RTS. They seem to work for my little layouts (everything actually matches up!).
    One thing, this is all Code 80, (And #4 turnouts!?!) so might not work with your track of choice.
    The wye was something I've been thinking about, a way to turn a loco around without using the 0-5-0...
    It would be a reversing section, but from what I've read is common and easy in DCC, with available devices that detect polarity and handle this.

    Looking forward to your build.
     
  20. JKeenan0407

    JKeenan0407 TrainBoard Member

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    The actual build will begin sometime after January so I've got a few months to tweak and mainly learn more about yards and what I want to do with such. I see a lot of plans that have a yard with no in and out so I'm guessing trains have to be backed in due to limited layout space. Just guess'n.

    Will do the track in 3 phrases:

    1. Outer loop
    2. Inner loop
    3. Yard, etc.
     

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