Can anyone tell me how the CP got hold of the lease for the NY CROSS HARBOR'S yard in Brooklyn NY? undefined
How do you mean "got hold of"? I would interpret your question as meaning that CP somehow became aware of the provisions of the lease, which should be private, but since it is a lease from another railroad, Long Island, which is a state agency, it is probably public record. I am making a big assumption here - that you are talking about the Bay Ridge yard and carfloat, as NYCH has yards and facilities that belonged to other predecessors like BEDT and Bush Terminal. Or do you mean NYCH has been kicked out and CP has taken their place? [ 07 July 2001: Message edited by: Gregg Mahlkov ]
Gregg, guess my choice of words was a little harsh. Yes, I meant the Bay Ridge Yard. It's just unusual that the Cross Harbor moves the cars off the floats, the New York and Atlantic moves the cars out of the yard, but CP owns the lease. It seems that there's alot of hands involved in the movement of the cars. I mean, we are talking Brooklyn here. LOL. Maybe the CP is looking to take over the yard eventually. Are you from NYC? The Bay Ridge yard is quite active these days. Much more so than previous years. This is good! John
Johnny, I grew up on Long Island and took many photos of the railroads and trolleys of Brooklyn as a teenager. Actually rode on the Bay Ridge branch behind a G5 on a fan trip. The President of the NYCH, Ron Bridges, and I were both Sales Representatives for the PRR in the 1960's. CP is trying to build a traffic base in New York but I think they are using Hunt's Point in the Bronx as their yard.
Wow Gregg! You are a NY rail vet indeed! Rail traffic has improved alot here. Hunts Point and Port Morris in the Bronx have the wonderfully new GARBAGE TRAINS! CP runs ( I believe.......) a train a day over the Hell Gate Bridge into Queens with their own CP engine. (Haven't seen it in real life yet.) And the Cross Harbor is doing well while the Long Island is doing better because of the take over of frieght operations by the New York and Atlantic. We're getting 1000+ subway cars in too. The old World's Fair r-42's (?) on the 7 line are going to be sunk off of Jersey to create new fish spawning grounds. Thre's a lot of fun stuff to follow here lately. My 7th Ave. line is seeing abunch of the new trains already. I thought rail traffic would die here. Glad I was wrong! JOHNNY TRAINS
CP Rail has the lease to control the 65th St Yard and new float bridges owned by the City of NY. This is seperate from the Cross Harbor RR (NYCH) operation. NYCH is the old BEDT operation with floats over to Greenville. That is the only current operation but does not use 65th St in Bay Ridge. There currently is no operating float bridge on the Jersey side for CP to go to. NY&A will operate the actual trains for CP under contract. CP will get the cars at Freemont/Fresh Pond on their regular train to/from Saratoga Springs. CP made a competitive bid for the lease on 65th St Yard in conjunction with the NY&A. The Yard is owned by the NY City Economic Development Corp. No other railroad owns the property. [ 09 July 2001: Message edited by: Big Al ] [ 09 July 2001: Message edited by: Big Al ]
Al, you must forgive me. I've been watching the Cross Harbor since I first went there in '87, but it's always been a "behind the fence thing". Where does the CHRR put their cars onto floats? The only ones I see are at the 65th St. yard. Are there more hidden behind the buildings that I've never seen? Also, I always seem to see the same freight cars in the yard. They seem to sit there for months and months. Hoppers and gondolas mostly these days. And what has become of removing and delivering new and old subway cars? Wasn't that a carfloat operation at 65th St.? I also see that the South Brooklyn is fixing up their yard. I'm totally amazed at the "complexity" of what I thought was a "simple" yard. Never realized that it wasn't really owned by a railroad. Thanks to everyone for their responses too! John
Hello and welcome Johnny, I too am from NY (2 blocks from Fresh Pond Yard) and yes, NY&A and CP Rail submitted a joint proposal to operate NYCH. I believe that NYA will handle all the switching ops (much as they do now). As for the rest of 65th street yard, it still looks like nothing more than a storage yard. There are people more knowledgeable than me however. Check out The N.Y. Rail Forum (As this topic is currently being discussed there by actual employees and followers of NYA) Happy Railroading Johnny! Russ
Hi Guys, I need to clarify that CP/NY&A got the lease on 65th St. Yard. That is a seperate facility from New York Cross Harbor's operation but in the same neighborhood. There will now be two distinct operations. Currently there are some cars stored in the 65th St facility that have been there for quite some time. I am hoping that this new venture will take-off as I work for CP/D&H and we need the work!
THE BEST OF EVERYTHING TO YOU , AL! YOU NEED THE WORK AND WE LOVE THOSE TRAINS! By the way, I see your address is in Saratoga Springs. Back in May I took my daughter to see Skidmore. Nice town indeed! I had no idea that it was a RR town! Kick myself! Kick myself! Would you know anything about Utica? Heading there next month. John
Sorry to say guys but I got it from a NYA rail forum that CP-rail has been denied their proposal on 65th street. NYA must empty their storage in the yard. Also , the carfloats still sit empty without an operator Russ saddened NY railfan
So far the only lease that has been terminated is for the storage of those cars at 65th St. The CP/NYA deal is alive and well!! This is from a RELIABLE source at CP. They have no reason to not tell me and were in fact very surprised about my inquiry. John, Glad you enjoyed Saratoga, it's a GREAT town. I love it here. Skidmore is a good school. Don't know much about Utica, just lots of CSX trains thru there. Couple of shortlines nearby too. [ 12 July 2001: Message edited by: Big Al ]</p>
I do hope that your source is more reliable than my source as I would really love to see this deal go through. However, I also read (I forgot where) that the group that will be deciding on the contract award on behalf of NYC (the EDC I believe) declined it. Oh I do hope that I read nothing more than a rumor. We need more trains! Russ/NYC The Hoffman Valley Railroad N-scale P.S. Here is a teaser pic
I must be dreaming........ Was that a CP engine delivering new subway cars????? Just spent the day at Selkirk. Have a friend that took us into the yard. What an incredible place!!!!! Spent nearly 8 hours there. The guys want to do an overnighter there. It's unreal! excellent! Best day off from work in ages! John
Al, I won't be getting to Utica until late in the day. Would you know if those shortlines are within a shortdriving distance? We're leaving for home after going from NYC to Maine, to Massachuttes, to Utica. (schools) I'm on a tight schedule. LOL. Thanks. John
Johnny, Yes sir. That is indeed CP Rail delivering the new subway cars to Fresh Pond Yard in Queens. That SD40-2 is crossing Cypress Hills Street in Glendale just coming off the NYCRR. I hope to catch more soon but I do have some on the NYA page of my website. You may visit the page by clicking here. Enjoy! Russ The Hoffman Valley RR
Hi all, I checked with another source and there is good and bad news concerning 65th street. The bad news is that NYA has been given the boot and have currently pulled out all their cars. (Hopefully this is only temporary. The good news is CP-rail is still using it and is going to make the "trash train" a daily now! Also, the D&H should be upping their number of runs All I can say about this is that it is time to load up on some film! Russ/NYC
Is there some kind of war going on over in Bay Ridge? One RR is in- one RR is out........ Who has final say as to what goes on over there? Is all of this going to become the demise of the Cross Harbor? Next thing I'm waiting to hear is that CP will buy CSX AND run our subways too!!!!!
