HELP!! I wanna stop the train! I have a few blocks down on the lower loop I have.. Now the problem I see is if you have a 2 or more loco train crusin down the track, it gets to the block (insulator joiners on both rails), the first loco completely crosses it and stops. The 2nd loco if using 2 locos Keeps going until the cows come home, because its still in the power section of track. I don't want that to happen!!! How do I fix my problem...?? Options? Now one option I thought of is creating a say 6inch dead zone... you drive into this, then somehow trigger the power to cut while all locos are in this zone.... How and Why would I do this? SIMPLE TERMS PLEASE I BEG! I know that the DZone isnt the way others do it. So am I missing something, the test locos were U25Bs, SD40-2 and 45s and a U30C... Thanks Again. Bruce
Well, you could do it with some kind of sensor (optical most likely). Otherwise you will always have the same problem on a DC layout. Either that or manually stop the locos before they enter the block.
I'm with Hoss here, electrical blocks aren't really meant to be an "auto train stop" system. What sort of thing were you trying to acheive?
I want the train to come to a point on the track, or a signal on side of the track, say before a set of points, to wait for another train to come throught, and the whole thing to automatically stop at that point.. For example, if you ahve a train on the main line going around, have it go to a point, while your in the yard settin up another train, basically so you dont have to watch every train all the time.. I wouldn't have thought this was anything new, or too hard I would have thought people were doing this for eons with model trains? Maybe I was dreaming when I thought other tracks/clubs did this? Optical things are way out of my league, Im happy to have power running around a circle at the moment... Thinkin about the optical thing a little more, you have a beam break (where would you get soemthing like that for under a billion$?) and that cuts the power?? How do you power on again, and is that how it works? Anyone got a description of how this works? Not interested in DCC, too many locos to do that. [ 14. February 2004, 05:03: Message edited by: virtual-bird ]
There are electronic modules you can get to automate things like this, and most of them will also give your train a gentle stop, rather than what you get when you run into a dead block. Check out some of the links on here, look out for phrases like "automated control" http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/counties/manufacturers/electronics.html Sorry, all those are UK suppliers, but I would think they would either ship abroad, or they may well have distributors in Australia. The only one where I've seen some of their stuff in person is Kent Panel Controls. Their stuff looked good to me.
As I remember, most times a guy is operating alone, as if HE were the engineer of whatever engine is running at the time. If another engine was running somewhere else at the same time, it was either a runaway, or some unknown vandal had stolen an engine! Except for clubs and store window displays, I think the only other multiple train operation I am aware of, is like when I might set one train to running on a closed loop, and pretend that "Old George" is running that one, so I'll now go run another engine on another track. But in this scenario my tracks do not intersect or cross. I guess you could set up a selenium rectified control to allow the power to decay when you passed an infrared detector that would drop a relay out and have another as a "dead stop" just before this engine could cause a collision with another. Working in "see-saw" with the detectors on the other track, when that train cleared, the relays would re-energize so this engine would have power and begin to build up and start off again. That is how we did the store displays, ( as I remember), but I never learned how to set that up myself. I remember Lionel used to set this up on their displays too. Wouldn't it be simpler and safer to follow the good advice from Hoss and Martyn, rather than risk a collision possibly destroying one of those valuable engines? It would be especially nasty if the engine that got destroyed was the one you were the engineer on! Put me in your will!
Wow, in shock really, I thought it would be a piece of pi$$ and worked out years ago. So, then whats the point of having blocks in the track? Am I missing something here?
The point of blocks is to allow two trains to be controlled independantly, the electrical blocks allow this, but they are not designed to be a system of auto train stops. After all, if your uncontrolled train runs into the next block and you are running a train in that block in the same direction, your uncontrolled train will keep going, with both running on the same controller!!! I think the bit you are missing is the control issue, you are talking about a train running uncontrolled, whereas blocks are about setting an area to control the train within. Most model railways are approached from the point of view of you driving the train. Things to allow this sort of automation *have been* worked out years ago though, and they are things like the off-the-shelf electronic modules I pointed you towards, or the system that Watash mentioned.
Thanks Martyn for replying.. Guess I was a little pi$$ed on the last reply, apologies to all. ANyway, Im not after so much uncontrolled trains. Let me try again. Ok, I have an 'intersection' of 2 tracks. I want train #1 (being 1,2, or 3 locos) to stop before the intersection with enough clearance for train #2 to pass safely. Now Im not sure how to do this with blocks. I have created a block about 2 loco lengths from the intersection. Should be ample, as I thought .. Issue is Loco #2 and #3 if so, are still driving along pushing Loco #1 thru the block. Now simple answer is to create a block back 6 in further back down the track, but if your running 1 GP loco, it would stop ages before intersection. Is this any clearer? I'd draw it, but my photoshop skills are about on par with explaining things I would like to find out how the train club in Sydney has theirs setup, as all locos would stop when they came to a signal. (Colonel??? Gats)... This is what I would **LIKE** to do! But may not be possible. Thanks for replies so far everyone, appreciate it.
Hi vb okay, here is how I would do it on a DC system (how I did it on an old layout. First you need to get familliar with Infra-red detection systems from a company like Dalee or Heathcote systems. The block that leads up to the signal needs to be long enough for your longest MU lash-up or longer.. I used blocks that were long enough for the complete train. What happens.. in its simplest form is that the I/R (Infra red) detection unit is placed a few inches in front of the signal you want to test. The I/R unit drives a relay unit. Power is fed to the block through the relay. When the relay is normally closed ( nothing is detected by the I/R ) then power goes to the block. When the I/R is trigerred the relay goes to the other contacts. Now you also need a relay connected to your signal, so that on green the relay is normally closed and on red it is open. The feed from the I/R unit relay in open position is linked to the signal relay. If the signal is green, the relay on the signal is closed and the power will flow to the track and the train will continue. If the signal is red, the signal relay will be open and no pwer will go to the track hence everything in that block will be switched off bringing your train to a stop (albeit sudden) as all power to that block is switched off. Ultimately theres two switches here.. one on the signal, which is only checked when a train crosses the I/R detection unit. The train will run quite happily in the section until it reaches the I/R detector, at which point it will then make a decision as the whether the signal is red or green and then either cut or continue the power feed to that section. Yikes... make any sense? Regards
That would cause a sudden stop which might also derail a string of cars rounding a curve, just as in real life. I think what he wants to do is play like there is no engineer running this train, and have it "slow down" and come to a stop before crossing the other track. Then when the other train has crossed his track and cleared, this train is supposed to start up and continue on its way as if an engineer was running it. This is like the standard run-alone window display layout. This train would only run on Block "A" and the other train would only run on Block "B". The crossing would be the only control required to prevent a collision. All he has to provide is a long enough section of track that all engines on This train can enter this Block "A" at road speed, and have space to slow down to a stop before getting to the crossing. So obviously, one makes the whole loop this train is running on, a Block. Simple. When one or the other of the trains detect the other one, the first to "see" the other, is triggered to start slowing down, allowing the other train to continue over the crossing at speed. He will have to time it so this train can have time to start up, get to speed and pull all its cars across the crossing before the other train comes back around again!
Hi Watash Yep, I agree, but the tricky part in DC control is getting the slow down part. That implies auto control of the power supply as well which is now getting ultra expensive. Fleischmann and some others do auto control modules but even then on DC they operate in discrete steps. Taking my procedure above, you could add further sections on relay control to provide discrete slow down steps as well, but now were getting into multi-pole relays and bird-nest wiring It may be possible to do this auto slow-down under computer control, but thats also an expensive route. Under DCC with the new lenz gold decoders coming out, and their signalling system, this is going to be a piece of cake.. BUT its DCC. This has always been a problem under DC and once you get to this level of automated control, I seriously think its time to start looking at DCC Regards
All I want is the train to stop at a block... If theres 3 locos for all the 3 to stop driving << This is the problem, stopping power to the 3 locos... I have it currently so 1 loco can go around part of the testing section, come to the block and stop. Flick the switch, and it goes again as I give it some power.... If I add another loco to this, the first one comes to the block and stops! WOOHOO!! BUT The Second loco in the train still has power and pushes the first loco into the crossing... THATS THE PROBLEM, HOW TO STOP THE SECOND AND OR THIRD LOCO Just want the 2nd and 3rd locos to STOP at the same time as the first loco..
You can stop the second and third locos by putting all three locos coupled together. Run them slowly until that first loco stops in the dead block you have now. Note where the gap in the rails for that block is in relation to the first engine, then move back to the third engine and mark the rail at the same location as it was on the first engine. Put a gap in the rains here, and add a rail joiner across the "old" gap and solder in place. Now all three engines will stop leaving the first engine stopped where it has always stopped. The stop is still going to be sudden! We don't have this sudden stop problem because we run on selenium rectifier control. When we shove the throttle to foreword, current voltage begins to build and we release the throttle when our engine get up to the speed we wish to operate. The engine will continue until we pull the throttle into reverse, and hold it there while the current decays to almost zero. We can observe the indicator and hold the throttle until the gage shows zero if we want to leave the engine any length of time. We could do this with a relay if we wished, like Graham said.
Virtual Bird, check Graham's first post, that method will work. You need to add a detector so that when all the loco's have entered the block it switches that block off. Like Watash says though, it will give you a heavy stop...
Bruce, below is a link for the Signal Research "Roadmaster" system that will solve all of your multiple train operational challenges. Hope this helps. Bill Roadmaster System
Thanks people, I think I'll just give up on the idea, too hard. Or too rich... for 12 blocks will cost me $750us, over $1300aussie $$... Not in a wet dream! Roadmaster Train Controller 8-Block System with Power Supply $499.95 Expansion Module Adds 8 Additional Blocks $249.95
what if you had 2 detectors or more? one about every engine length or so, use them to trip a relay that would add a light bulb in (series or parallel??? i forgot my electrician's hat again). each one you pass adds another light, decreasing amount of power, which should let you step down your juice w/o touching throttle. then you could do a cut out one. then have all tripped back when the other one clears. do i make any sense? it's clear in my head, but i'm known for communication problems between brainpan and any output device (mouth, hand, elbow, etc.)
