And I thought that modeling the Roaring 20's was going to be an exercise! Wonderful work you've done there! Electricity, well that is a whole 'nother art form! Keep at it and you'll figure it out!
Can you tell us a little more about the stagecoach? I think I recognise some of the other vehicles. It's a lovely little layout. Hope I can do as well (just setting-up baseboadrs for an 1890s version).
@ BarstowRick: Many thanks, it was rather "organic" and it took on a life of its' own! @ bandlandnp: As long as I keep my layouts straightforward, I'll keep my wiring straightforward. At least, I can hope! @ jimbotten: The stagecoach was modeled from a line drawing (side view below) I found of a Concord stagecoach. I located and adapted the following dimensions: 46" wide body front and back 56" wide in center of body Body is 7'-0" long Axle width 78" Wheels 56" back/40" front Total height 8'-6" I then "shrunk" my line drawing in a computer graphics program (Illustrator) to the correct size for n-scale, made several copies on a single sheet of paper and printed it out. I used this as a paper template. I taped it to some thin styrene, scribed the outline and cut out my sides, the seat, the boot. The details for the paneling were smaller pieces of styrene rod that I attached to the surface to mimic the panels. I also cut out the windows. Next, styrene "joists" the width of the coach were cut. With one coach side face down, I attached the joists on end along its' edge and attached the other coach side face up. Next, I bent a thin styrene sheet the width of the coach from the back to the front using the "joists" as glue points and support and added the roof to enclose it all. Finally, I built the driver's seat from styrene sheets, added stanchions, cut scale wood for the hitching poles, etc., found metal wheels (Musket Miniatures), and made the suspension from metal and styrene strips. Ta-da! In one of the references I located regarding the National Road stagecoach lines: they mentioned how that it was a very competitive business. So much so, that loyal customers of a coach line would shoot at a rival coach and riders when they were passed on the road!
"Ta da!" indeed. You make it sound so simple but my heart sank at the thought of doing anything like myself. Respect just increased a hundred-fold (at least).
Well, Jim, I searched high and low for a 1:160 stagecoach, but couldn't find one. So, I was challenged to do it on my own. [Plus, my husband teased me that I couldn't really call myself a model railroader without actually "modelling"!] The material outlay is small, it just cost me research time to experiment and thread the itsy-bitsy wire through the roof stanchions! However, after I completed one for my layout, I found n-scale stagecoach suppliers on Shapeways including Reaper Media and CG N Scale. So, if you need one, they're available now!
That's definitely a great model and AA+ Grade for a first layout. You have done a great job with the details, especially considering the era you're modeling in. If you decide to build a bigger layout with that theme, I think you can make a masterpiece. Also, good to know about another 'railroad modeler couple' My wife and I work together to build our railroad, so I know how cool it is (But I hear you on the 'cons' - don't tell her) Looking forward to see more projects from you.
Thanks, Kaustav, the feelings are mutual -- your blog is quite an undertaking. How do you find the time? I'm equally impressed that you're doing n-scale scratchbuilt ships from cardstock (!). [I've yet to lay the keel on a wooden boat kit that I've had for years.] Perhaps you can you give me some tips on how to model water, you really nailed that. What's Mouli's favorite part of the process? Sally
Thank you Sally. Actually, I don't find much time, or it's more appropriate to say that I don't get as much time as I would like. but hey, I do it piece by piece, as and when possible, and finish one thing at a time. I am far behind from where I wanted to be in building that layout - thought I would finish it by two years, but as it seems, I might have to give it a whole more year, or may be more to bring it to completion. We actually haven't modeled the water yet. What you are seeing is just two coats of black acrylic paint, applied directly on the ply. Once all the necessary details are in place, I will paint the water surface with another coat of black paint, this time mixed in gloss medium. Then I will start with the actual water modeling with high density, high gloss acrylic gel - applied in multiple coats on the black paint. Mouli is more into painting, weathering and detailing. But she does handle saw and chisels better than me, and does a pretty good job with the soldering iron - go figure!
Hi Sally! A nice layout! I can appreciate the difficulty with the time setting, I've more or less given up on the 1870s (which is what I really would like to model) for lack of rolling stock (although with 3D-printing...). Which leaves me with the one problem of populating my "around 1900" layout. Were did you get the right kind of women for your layout (i.e. long dresses, cap on head)? Not that I wouldn't mind a few TV-style cow-punchers or Indians (no native Americans in 1870, I suspect either, but just getting common women-folk seems difficult enough (no problem with the men. As long as they wear a hat and suspenders...). Any advice/source appreciated! Thanks Sven
There are a few sources for 19th century figures. In plastic Model Power makes a set they call Steam Era People, p/n 1343, that includes two women in hoop skirt and bonnet. The rest of the set are train crew. There may have been an 1850s set from Preiser or Merten in N as they were available in HO. In metal Thoroughbred Figures makes inexpensive 1860s-90s folks http://thoroughbredmodels.com/images/10mmCivislrg.jpg They are 10mm wargamer scale, made to 1/160, and are mostly standing, stolling, or sitting, in coats and dresses, so no one in suspenders. Musket Miniatures/Rustic Rails http://www.musketminiatures.com/ has a few farm women in long dresses and laboring types in shirtsleves, also metal and to 10mm scale, though a bit on the chunky side sometimes. Don't overlook American Civil War figures in 10mm scale, especially artillery crews which come in multiple poses and easily pass for civilians. Check GHQ and Thoroughbred. Oddly no cowboys in 10mm yet, but Old Glory has some armed Texicans. Eric
Hi Eric, Right. The Model Power one is actually on my ebay list, but as you said, it's only two womenfolk... Never heard (or seen) the Preiser set, about the closest I know of is the König Ludwig set. Dang. I always forget about those. Might be because they're a bit on the chunky (and small, about 5'3", but I guess people weren't much bigger then, and not very finely detailed at all) side. Or maybe because musketminiatures has so few pics. But I guess that would be the way to go. Thanks for reminding me (again, sigh! Sven
Thanks, Sven, The figures you see on my layout are Musket Miniatures/Rustic Rails farm women. They are not as "to-scale" (nor as expensive!) as the Preiser (Ludwig II of Bavaria, 1860s), Model Power/Noch female figures mentioned by Eric. However, the Rustic Rails figures were suitable. What did you have in mind to model in the 1870s? -- western U.S.? -- because Rustic Rails offers animals including longhorn cattle and cowpunchers! Check out P&D Marsh and Langley Miniatures. They make figures you may be able to adapt, although they are very rough. Don't give up on the 1870s: Have you considered using an Atlas 2-6-0 Mogul? They come undecorated and according to the blurb on the side of the box: "The earliest versions…were built in 1863 by the Rogers Locomotive Works in Paterson, NJ. Like the 4-4-0 American-type locomotive that it was designed to replace, the 2-6-0 was a general purpose steam locomotive that was found in both freight and passenger service." Also, Panamint (on Shapeways) has a zillion early wood beam trucks that add incredible authenticity to the cars for that era. Hope this helps, Sally
Hello Sally, I see. Thanks, good to know. Now, there you got me. Somewhere right where the plains start to become the rockies, think Colorado and surrounding States. Which didn't have much railroads in 1870, I'm afraid. I guess what I'm really trying to model is some very inaccurate vision of the Old West (gunslinging, Indians and all) married to some cigarette commercial... Although, honestly, they don't much look like longhorns at all, don't they? Thanks, I certainly won't (give up). Although being able to run Randgusts Climax has somewhat consoled me with modelling a slightly later date. I have one right here (together with Bachman's 4-4-0 you used). A beautiful engine (especially given the price, and when compared to the BM), but both are terrible pullers, and given to derail at the drop of a hat (in the next room. Possibly the next house. Across the street). Still, it's what I'm going to use on the "plains" part, and since they'll only need to pull at most 3 cars or so, they'll do.. So I learned from this thread. Now, those are really nice --- but, oh, so expensive... We'll see how long I can resist getting myself one of their cars Sure will. I already learned a lot from this thread. Thanks Sven
Well, Sven, I had no idea that the Atlas 2-6-0 was not a good puller. My cars are very short (less than 40 ft. scale) to fit into my curves, so I don't have to have a heavy hauler on my little branch line. My cars come from a variety of sources including Panamint, Republic Locomotive Works, Peco, and Bachmann ("altered" Old timers). But that mix would be fitting for 1870s, too. You're right, it looks like the Union Pacific was the main railroad in the Rockies in 1870, but, the competition wasn't far behind: BTW, have you seen the Atlas to Classic Short Lines? It may be a source you can use for that time period and locale. ...and since you mentioned "The Plains": have you ever considered the MKT (Missouri, Kansas, Texas)? Granted, there are few mountains to be modeled on this road, but it began in 1870. And, hey, you can use those "longhorns".
Sven, if you shift up to the mid 1870s you'll find many of the western railroads already started. CP, SP, Virginia & Truckee and the early California roads, the Kansas Pacific and Santa Fe to Denver and New Mexico, the Utah Central and Denver Pacific connecting with the UP, and a bunch in the plains working south to Texas and north to Minnesota. Don't forget the big narrow gauge boom that began 1871-72, you could go Nn3 or pretend the DSP&P or D&RG (or the other Rio Grande RR in Texas) were standard. There's an Atlas mogul decorated for the first two, as well as for the V&T, which are close to the originals. Much 1870 equipment was still around in the 80s, and was pretty consistant during the decade. It was rare however to find pre-1865 equipment west of the Missouri by the mid 70s outside the CP and UP (used engines excepted). In fact in squinting at hundreds of old photos I've found only two showing evidence of wood-beam freight trucks in the far west, on the UP circa 1868. (I'm certain the early Texas roads had them though, maybe the Sacramento Valley RR too, and there were some wood-truck 4 wheel hoppers around). Regional interchange was developing by the 70s so you have don't have to stick to one road's cars either in some cases. If you move east just a little, to Missouri (mountains too) or Iowa, or Chicago (lots of cattle) or Galveston, the engines on the market will mix just fine with cars dating back to the 1850s, with traffic and architecture not all that different from that further west, unless you prefer desert scenery. The Bachmann Old Timers and the Republic Loco kits (non-rounded roof cars) are fine for the 70s both east and west with the right trucks. A little lead or tungsten putty on the pilot truck and anywhere you can cram it will help the mogul. Also helps to put weight under a tall wood pile, since coal was little used in the west at this time anyway. It's really a larger-than-N-scale 42" gauge engine made for Japan in ~1880, but otherwise it's nearly identical to small engines of 1865-85, a fairly conservative period for loco design. I should exchange the stack on mine for a larger wood burning style, maybe turn one from brass, or drill them out and stuff with putty. I was thinking of the Ludwig set, was there more than one? If I had more time and a decent 3D program I'd print up some 19th Century people. The soldiers and such at Shapeways look pretty good so it's do-able. Yes, 3D printing is sometimes expensive. Mostly it's material costs and Shapeways' set up fee for each file printed. As the designer I add only 5%-20% but some of my stuff is offered at cost. It's cheapest if I'm contacted first so I can combine a custom order (easy to do) into as big a lot as possible, then the setup fees are minimal. I looked into casting, resin for cars and metal for some things in kit form, but there's no cheaper way to make complex parts with this much detail like trucks in N scale. It was pretty much impossible outside of injection moulding just a couple years ago. I have a limited supply of truck samples if you want to contact me off-forum.
That's a lot of good historical info, Eric. Do you have a favorite reference book that explores early lines? I'd like to read up on the subject.
Hi Eric and Sally, thanks for the info! Eric, you're the guy doing the trucks at shapeways? They're great, I wonder how long I'll be able to resist, despite the price. If you really wanted to do clueless people like me a favour, you could write to each truck when and where it was used. For people like me, who are hardpressed to recognize an arch bar truck even when it rolls right across (over?) their feet, this would be tremendously helpful Talking about people: you mentioned printed soldiers, do you have a link for that? This sounds really interesting, although I wonder how hard it would be to get the clothing right --- that might not be easy at all! Sally, I didn't mean to say that the Atlas is in any way a bad loco, nor that the BM 4-4-0 is. As far as pulling power goes, they are fine in the plane (but hardly able to pull even their own weight on any serious incline), and they also work reasonably well on well laid track --- only mine isn't (I'm used to Minitrix full metal shells and NEM cookie-cutter-wheels --- those things will navigate any track, no matter how rotten, and didn't even bulk at my original 11% incline (oops. Was meant to be 4% everywhere, rather than 2% in some places and 11% in others. Dooh!). As for the exact date: well, as I said, this is going to be very much freelance and very little prototype, so I'm not too picky about a year or two, just as long as things don't start to get completely ridiculous. And no, it has to be mountains (the higher the better) but no deserts. So DSP&P in standard gauge might not be too far off, with a few TV-Ghost-Towns (before the ghost bit) strewn in for good measure Thanks Sven PS: my first American railroad (never really build) was (to be) modelled after Mickey Mouse's "Ridin' the Rails", which is set in a rather arid region somewhere in the mountains, and features Elvira's "Grandma Duck" Coot runabout, so must be set sometime after 1905 (maybe even during the depression?). So you see I'm not too worried about the particular "prototype" I model
Yep, I'm the one with the trucks, oodles of them. send me your contact info offline and I'll send you some. There are descriptions on Shapeways for each truck which pretty much cover their usage, but I guess a primer of sorts wouldn't hurt. Just about all the wood beam ones are good through the 1870s in the east, the metal ones mostly post 1865. I have an N or 1/144 soldier that came with a tank model, but looking through Shapeways turns up plenty of larger people, the design of which can easily be scaled down. Finding figures is awkward, search 'photographer' 'pilot' or 'driver' and look through that designer's other offerings. Eric Cox
