Taking the trip to Discount Model Trains and would like some feedback on buying some coal car kits or ready to roll. I am a little overwhelmed by all of this talk about different couplers and trucks and so on and so on. Is there kind of a standard line that offers a smooth running car without a lot of changing? I like the looks of the Bowser line and the Red Caboose but they have seem to have different make-ups. I am also looking for cattle haulers, any ideas on these. Thanks again. Harp
Harp, I highly recommend walthers (good weight, half-way decent wheels, GREAT DETAIL ) really depends on what era you model. For modern modelers walthers is the best bet. Athearn offers alot, except there is some modification required, such as: adding weight, details and new wheels. Another great manufacture is proto but be prepared to do some modeling!! O and welcome to trainboard Jake
What sort of detail level are you looking for, are you looking at simple kits, or the ones with lots of detail parts? What were the issues with couplers and wheels that you have been having? One brand to look at may be Accurail, they are relatively simple kits, not much more difficult to build than an Athearn, but with fairly fine moulded on detail, kind of somewhere in between the Athearn/Roundhouse kits and the Intermountain/Proto/Red Caboose ranges. Their website is at www.accurail.com if you want to see their range, they have some nice older coal and stock cars. HTH
I've got quite a few of the Bowser hoppers (all Frisco), and they're nice kits. Several small detail parts to add on, but a nice model when finished. But, I guess the question is: what era are you wanting to model? If it's an earlier time, the Athearn cars may fit the bill. Athearn also has (or did) stock cars in HO scale, and all decent models. Don't know if you've been to Discount before, but you'll like the place.
2 years ago I picked up 12 LBF coal cars, very good kits. I used Kadee couplers, which you'll find that everyone will recommend. The cars have always tracked well, and I don't have any problems with them. One other thing I did was to load them with coal - yep, REAL coal. I bought 5 gallons of coal from a local supplier, mashed it between two boards on my front porch, and filled the cars. To keep the loads intact I mixed up a solution of 25% elmers white glue, 50% water, and 25% alcohol and soaked it down good with an eye dropper. I really soaked it so it saturated the coal all the way down. When it dries you couldn't see the glue, but the coal was in one solid chunk. Are the cars heavy? You'd better believe it. Are they realistic when the AC4400 groans as it pulls them up a grade? Yep. Maybe that's why they've never derailed? Mark in Utah
Mark, By doing it with REAL coal, and the glue/water/alcohol mixture and going all the way to the bottom of the car, and adding weight you had lowered the cars center of balence! Which also helps to keep them from wobbling, and not being light keeps them on the track well. And will make them track well..... HOWEVER, depending on how many you couple together, you may want to add another AC4400! ONE alone on 12 heavy cars is HARD on the motor! And being Athearn loco, the motor isn't what you'd think it is to run like a Kato, or Atlas! You'll burn the brushes an even the comutator if not carefull! I've seen loco's come through my shop from this same exact thing! They had to heavy a load on one alone loco and hauling god only knows what and it was too much.... If it were me, with loads like that, I'd put sprung trucks with metal wheels an axles under those cars! Reasons why you ask? Well one, the sprung trucks would flex with the load in the cars an help to keep the friction down so they roll better. The metal wheels will haul that load per car forever, where a platic wheel will wear a grove in time in it from the load! And metal axles, being the load is heavy will take more on strain then any plastic axle ever will..... And being a metal axle and metal sprung truck side frame, it won't wear on the axle point journal in the truck side frame from the weight its carrying.... I know its mechanical. And thats alittle more to take care of as far a maintaining it goes, but will prevent you from doing alot of head scratching in time. Being in time, your plastic wheels will wear a grove in them from the weight, if the axles are plastic, they will bow and be out of round, and cause more problems then good, where as the metal sprung trucks, and metal wheels, and metal axles will only ever ask to have a drop of oil every now an again! To help releave more friction! And to not restrict its rolling! And that all will be awhole lot easier on the locomotive's motor, or motors being I hope you run 2 loco's with a load like that! Specially on an Athearn AC4400.... Not to be smart, but I've seen an had to deal with basket cases in my shop from about the same thing... I thought it was worth it to warn you what can happen..... And eventually will. [ 04. January 2003, 05:22: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]
I've got two Athearn AC4400's that I've "massaged" so they run better. Added weight for better traction (about 8 ounces), polished down the grears, shimmed the worm gear to prevent lash and cut down on the growl, polished the commutator, and hot wired the trucks. I think that's about all you can do besides replace the motors! The LBF cars came with very good looking metal wheelsets, and have always rolled easily. You're right about what's happened to the cars. Heavy, low C.G., and they still roll fairly well. I've been debating about installing Kadee metal wheelsets, but I'm not as impressed with them as I'd like. Who's metal sprung freight trucks would you suggest? Sadly it's all packed away for now until the basement construction is completed. It's be nice to have a layout that would allow a coal drag of 100 cars with somewhat realistic terrain..... 12 coal cars is about as good as it'll get I'm afraid. Maybe I'll add another 12 when the next layout is built. I have 12 ore cars too, hauling ore of course! Now I need to add automobile cars hauling cars, ....... Mark in Utah
I'm currently running an 18-car coal train (all Frisco 100-ton hoppers, both McKean and Bowser) with live loads (coal poured into the hoppers) pulled by two SD40-2s (one Frisco, one UP) made by Athearn. It does have two grades to pull upwards, and about 1/3 of the hoppers have metal wheels. I plan to replace all the plastic wheels with metal over time for better rolling (plus the clickety-clack sound of steel wheels on the track). Prototyipcally, I could get away with two GP38-2s on this train, to accurately model a mini-unit train that ran between Garland, KS and Aurora, MO, but in deference to the grades, I keep the six-axle power on the point. I picked up a bunch of coal that spilled out of hoppers in DRGW's West Yard in Grand Junction, took it home and crushed it into tiny particles. Following Tony Koester's philosophy of live loads, I pour it into the hoppers. For the record, I also use Athearn 70-ton quad hoppers to haul live ballast loads (for crushed stone), and those big woodchip hoppers are filled with sawdust (woodchips). [ 08. January 2003, 00:21: Message edited by: friscobob ]
If it were me, I'm not to picky about Kadee, Their sprung trucks are rally sharp looking, not to mention ACTUALLY work, being most are sprung, but they don't flex or anything which leaves them as a "for looks" sprung trucks. I model alot of older stuff. Being so I'm REALLY fond of the Central Valley sprung trucks that actually flex too. These are my number one choice when I need sprung trucks unless its for something of newer type trucks. These trucks are the ultament in flexing with the lean of the car as the real ones do. Not to mention have lighter springs in them with a restrictor on each side so the spring doesn't compress to far an ruin its springyness so that they lean all on their own! But I have one of the Walthers 75 foot 4 truck depress center goose neck cars with Kadee 100 ton roller bearing trucks that work! I got a 3/8th inch drill armature setting on this car which is awfull heavy! And the Kadee trucks lean and give with the movement of the car so... And handles really nice. I had used the factory Walther trucks, weighed the car with the drill armature on it an the car weighs like 2 pounds total! without the cars factory weights added! I omitted them, being I was going to use a "live" load for it.... And then I put the kadee trucks on it an weighed it and its less then one pound with the same load and heavy metal trucks! The springs support more weight then most would imagine! This is why I brought up about having "live" loads and a lot of weight on plastic wheels, an axles etc... The sprung equalized trucks work wonders!!!! Not to mention, I mnade that "live" load on that car removable, so I could put any load I wanted on it thats made to fit the car, and I have a Walthers 567 diesel that also sets on the same car and isn't as heavy an the trucks are the same ones an they track well with that lighter load as well! BUT I would tell you to look for a metal casting truck with metal wheels an axles for heavy cars that are sprung and equalized to carry the load and flex with the car, and load as its being run..... NOTHING plastic, as it will wear out an cause you a headache in time and buying new an replacing them continuously will get old fast! Use good materials the first time an the problem is solved, and the only thing it may want once in awhile is a drop of oil per axle journal....And NO truck replacements! Just a drop of oil every so offen!
JOhn, I've stayed with metal wheelsets in the original plastic truck frames mostly for the sake of economy- the cost of re-trucking all my hoppers with metal sprung trucks sounds pricey (or am I wrong? I would have 18 HO scale 100-ton hoppers to retruck). I'm not against metal trucks, as I've seen some great models in HO with srpung trucks, and they look great. I can say this- I had a cut of five hoppers with metal wheels get away from me on a grade, and they raced down the grade to the lower staging yard at a fast clip (no trains were coming, so fortunately no disasters). A similaar cut of plastic-wheeled hoppers will also roll downhill, but not as fast or as far.
Bob, Thats about the only thing bad about metal wheels an axles with metal truck side frames thats oiled, they do tend to roll pretty fast an for a good distance! Most times makes a nasty mess that your cursing after you see the after math. But on the level, or upgrade being pulled, they roll alot better so theirs not so much drag on the motor or motors of the loco's doing the pulling! I'm pretty fond of the sprung trucks tho that are equalized, for weight reason on "live" loaded cars being they work as the real ones do, and help with the weight. So that it doesn't have such friction on the axle points an journals.... BUT yes it can get costly, depending on what and how many trucks like that you need.. I think I got about $50 tied up in a few heavy cars I have with special trucks to handle the weight involved.... I believe I did that too 13 or 14 cars that make up the extra $50 spent....Some trucks were $7 a pair, others were $4.50 a pair, and one set was $3.00 a pair being I bought all new, the cheapest set was the older Archbar type that the car had originally but were rigid plastic trucks! The rest were more newer type bentendorf trype or 100 Ton roller bearing type. And costed more. The 100 Ton roller bearing type were $7 a pair from Kadee, and I needed 2 sets so. that was $14 in one car being these were the ones I needed for the Walthers 75 foot 4 truck depress center car.... [ 09. January 2003, 04:20: Message edited by: 7600EM_1 ]
