Cascades Commuter train and Push-Pull

Southern Oregonian Feb 27, 2011

  1. SteamDonkey74

    SteamDonkey74 TrainBoard Supporter

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    Welcome to TrainBoard, Mariuszjj!

    I would love to see that link but it appears to simply link back to this thread.
     
  2. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Yes. Some how it just loops back to here....

    Boxcab E50
     
  3. Southern Oregonian

    Southern Oregonian TrainBoard Member

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    Welcome Mariuszjj. Sorry I've been gone, we moved back to Oregon. We're in Eugene now so I should be able to get photos of the Cascades that service here. I think (don't quote me) its the 500, 504 and 508 that start and end in Eugene. At some point we plan on riding it the Portland to avoid the parking nightmare. Only a $100 for 2 people round trip and Tri-Met isn't to expensive.
     
  4. mariuszjj

    mariuszjj TrainBoard Member

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    sent you pm ...

    found a site link - http://www.tee-usa.com/ (do a talgo search)

    that carries european talgo sets and add-ons. The Talgos are made by Arnold now.....
    (got a electroen lisnece???? i guess) I bouth 2 car set of the Altraia (they were on sale for $35)
    and they are exact thing as the Amtrack 200.... (i think the roof line might be off a little)
    they have the caffe and restaurant but on backorder (waiting for those) ..... (if you making cascades
    those would be a good add ... need to be repainted anyways.... )

    and also here is a Southern california wizard's site (he made the surfliner demonstrator talgo) looks cool...

    http://www.socalwizard.com/wizardtrains/index.php?/pages/talgo_04.html

    i gonna try my hand of making both the cascades and the surfliner demonstrator (my set of talgos been sitting
    past 2 years idle LOL)

    there is a set on ebay for sale now but they want $179 (LOL i paid $35 on slae ....... from local hobby store)

    how far did you get on your cascades project?
    any new pics?
    BTW How did you chage the couplers (what # and where from? ) (could not find a conversion)

    Do a Google search for Eurolocoshop (on their site search for talgo and all of them will come up)
    call them and do a stock check (they might have stuff on backorder)


    here are some links for the cascades

    http://www.photosbystevenjbrown.com/narp/cascades/talgo_3.html

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/28197501@N07/3606857096/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 9, 2011
  5. mariuszjj

    mariuszjj TrainBoard Member

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  6. green_elite_cab

    green_elite_cab TrainBoard Member

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    A quick browse through this thread seems to have turned up a lot of issues with running push pull. Though I agree, its better to consist the F40PH than make it a true dummy, Running trains in push is not nearly as scary as some make it out to be. I run several sets of Push Pull and EMUs from SEPTA and NJ Transit. I've managed to coax my little ALP44 electric to push an 8 car Walthers consist up a 4% grade and around a layout, with ZERO issues. My SEPTA equipment is similarly flawless.

    There are some misconceptions that I'd like to address.

    This is the most common misconception. It is part of a larger tendency in the hobby to add weight until the problems go away. In terms of a push-pull train, extra weight is more harmful than not. Unlike a freight, where you can reasonably add another diesel to the consist, most real commuter push-pulls are a single locomotive, and unless you model NJ transit with it's E60CHs and U34CHs, you won't have heavy duty "freight" engines that can handled the added weight. I had to
    upgrade my AEM7/ALP44 electric fleet to be able to handle trains above 6 cars even on the straight and level track.

    More often than not, Wheel Resistance is the culprit. This is due to an inherent design problem in the "Inside bearing" trucks that are commonly found on modern passenger equipment. If you take a Walthers Amfleet, Horizon/Comet car, or similar model straight out of the box from the factory and set it on a 4% grade, it will sit exactly where you put it, or perhaps roll a little bit with a nudge, but it will stop in a car-length. This is because rather than rolling on needle points,   the trucks straddle the axle, creating far more friction and therefore holding the train up. Athearn's Bi-level cars and many resin kits suffer from similar issues in the trucks.

    This resistance to rolling is what causes the train to "bunch up" as Geep Fan noted.I've
    found that using a little bit of light oil (like Labelle 107) loosens up the Walthers and IHP cars that I own, and allows them to roll smoothly, passing the "grade" test. Making your push pull coaches roll silky smooth is the BEST thing you can do for a push pull train.

    I would LOVE to know where you can get those Kato MU couplers, they are perfect for Me! I have 8 Metroliners, 15 Arrow IIIs (7 Married pair sets and a single), a Single Silverliner IV, three Silverliner IIIs, two Silverliner IIs, a PATCO married pair, and maybe a few others i'm forgetting. The Kato type seem very similar to those used on the Metroliners and Patco cars.

    A German company makes working "pin and cup" types used on the Arrows and Silverliners, but they're expensive and similarly hard to obtain.

    Anyways, I don't think its the knuckles bunching up so much as, once again, wheel resistance. However, Draw bars ARE an excellent, somewhat easier solution to this issue. Just make up a length of plastic with a hole large enough to fit over the dowel in a Coupler pocket, but skinny enough to allow swiveling movement. these remove any slack from the train and make pushing and pulling slightly more reliable. Exampled of the draw-bars are the old "first run" Metroliners, and today's Acela sets.
     
  7. Southern Oregonian

    Southern Oregonian TrainBoard Member

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    I just had my lhs order my coupler knuckle replacements from kadee for me and they work fine. Swapping them out was a lot easier then, say walthers and athearn since they just snap in and out since its a European train made in Europe. As for running my tango, I haven't had to many problems. I had to rewire my 59 and kill the 45 (it was dead anyway) and it runs fine in any direction. I'm still on code 100 so the stock wheel sets don't bother me. The design that Electrotren used on the model makes the set run like its one car, so there is no bunching since there are only 2 coupler points on the entire train. We just moved back to Oregon so I don't have a layout up right now and haven't had time to paint or make "wings."
     
  8. Southern Oregonian

    Southern Oregonian TrainBoard Member

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    Just an update, Still no paint or wings yet, but the entire train got to roll today. No problems at all. I think I might go out and take some photos at some point since I live at the end of the Cascades line now. Shouldn't be to hard to find them.
     
  9. warnerj01

    warnerj01 TrainBoard Member

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    This may have been posted already, and I must have missed it.


    FYI - Last time I checked, the Cascades(talgo) train doesn't run in a push/pull config. I have only seen the Sounder do the push/pull.

    I am aslo modeling the PacNorthwest area. I am running the Sounder.
     
  10. YoHo

    YoHo TrainBoard Supporter

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    That's wrong, it has always been push/pull. It has an F59PHI for power on one end and an unpowered F40 cab car (not a cabbage, there's no baggage in it) on the other.
    So it looks like it uses two Locos, but it does not.
     
  11. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Correct. It is push/pull.

    Scroll down here to see an unpowered cab and pushing unit:

    http://www.train-orders.com/RFAN/AMTK/AMTK.html
     
  12. warnerj01

    warnerj01 TrainBoard Member

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    I stand corrected, I didn't realize that one of the cabs was unpowered.

    Learn something new everyday.

    I used to watch that train go by my dad's work and I never realized that the older engine was unpowered. That's pretty cool.
     
  13. Southern Oregonian

    Southern Oregonian TrainBoard Member

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    Yeah it's a little unique in what they had to do to the f40. The FRA and NTSB made them put a block of cement in it for safety so there is no baggage room. One of the end cars is a baggage car and rather unique to an amtrak train, has bike hooks. I think my favorite pic of The Cascades has a UP un-patched SP SD40m-2 #8690 subbing for the F40. I used to live next to Union Station in Portland so I got to see, hear, and feel a lot of what was coming a going. Those where dark times.
     
  14. PnP Hobbies

    PnP Hobbies TrainBoard Member

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    To an earlier post form someone I will be mass producing the "wings" here pretty soon. I am going to have these available in N-Scale. I have to finish my 3 sets to get them ourt in the shows for next season.

    Thank you
    PnP Trains
     
  15. mariuszjj

    mariuszjj TrainBoard Member

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    have any pics? so far not quite working on those yet ( so far changed the rapido couplers to MT couplers on my set .... )
     
  16. PnP Hobbies

    PnP Hobbies TrainBoard Member

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    Yes I will get them out as soon as I can figure out how.
     
  17. PnP Hobbies

    PnP Hobbies TrainBoard Member

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    Cascade 1 resize.jpg
    Here is one of what I have. I need to take more photo's and reduce the file size. The others I have are way to big.

    www.pnptrains.com
     
  18. mariuszjj

    mariuszjj TrainBoard Member

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    what paint did u use for those?
    (custom cascade decals ? ) have any pics of the f40 and f59 in cascades colors ?


    gonna try to make the blue demonstrator talgo ( got the f59 amtrack west just need the f40 )
    science i could not find any talgo add-on cars here got one set of arnold ( they make talgos now in N scale )
    Altaria 1st class and second class ( got lucky got them on sale ) and a cafe and restaurant cars too .... :)
    all they need is to be repainted ( hmm .... half of my talgos are Electroen other are Arnold ..... LOL )
     
  19. Southern Oregonian

    Southern Oregonian TrainBoard Member

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    I still haven't made much progress in changing my demonstrator to Cascades yet, let alone the wings (HO scale). If anyone wants pics I'll be riding on on the 24th and 25th.
     
  20. BoxcabE50

    BoxcabE50 HOn30 & N Scales Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Nice. A Holiday train ride!
     

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