Fotheringill, Ordinarily I would agree with you, but the manufacturers have created this limited run mentality, and reserving something that is untested creates problems just like we are experiencing. If the items were continuously made, and fixes were field easy, I would agree. But since they are not, and since everyone has reported on various forums that the gauges are not within NMRA specs, (on the 2662 anyway) then all bets are off. NMRA standards for N has been around for quite a long time. Theres no excuses passing out equipment that doesn't follow gauge recommendations. They should of been checked at the factory, they should of been screened upon reciept by the company before they got shipped to the distributers. I am not shelling out close to 200 dollars for a locomotive where the wheel gauge cannot be adjusted with grinding out journal boxes and modifiying the running gear. Adjusting gauges I can see, sometimes they slip by, minor adjustments I can understand, major surgery? no! Rob
Please let's be careful with the language. I know of several posts were people have said just the opposite.
Asking for this checking is absolutely within your rights as a customer. If you don't receive what you asked for, then move on to next vendor. I think this is a pretty simple--why make a stink?
If I buy a new steam loco for around $200 street price, and it is a stiff, I am going to send it back to the seller for a refund, not off for repair. I don't want to wait until parts are available and get mine back after someone who may not be as careful as me has worked it over. Nor do I want a different untested loco off the shelf with a different problem. There are at least two current importers of N Scale steam with this problem, just like I stated it above. I have a buddy in my train club who sent a steam loco back to the importer for repair, rather than send it back to the e-seller. It took him several months to get one that worked right, because he kept having to send them back. I won't do that. If a seller will not take back a stiff, they will never sell anything to me ever again. If I bought a $200 watch, camera or DVD player, and it was a stiff, I'm not sending that off for repair either. I'm taking it back for a refund, and I will probably not want another one like it after that experience, either. Why should trains be different at that price point?
Because trainguys are DESPERATE for that new loco! THERE ARE NO ALTERNATIVES to each model of loco! That's the way the market has set itself up - manufacturers don't compete with each other over the same type, so if Con Cor makes it and it's all there is, and it's a type that you just have to have, you have no alternatives than to deal with this cr@p or abstain from attempting to buy something that works as it was represented to in the first place! Bwahahaha. Just say no to steam locos. Diesels by Kato and usually Atlas do function like $200 watches or DVD players, only they cost $80.
Bob, So what's the stink on this? If someone does this to you, you'll find someone else? Wouldn't all of us do the same?
A reservation is a committment. If I reserve something, I'm going to buy it. Because I said I would. I always try to be as good as my word.
If I place a reservation for a loco, I won't cancel it. Any repairs to a loco can be worked out with the manufacturer. I had a LL 2-8-8-2 that was having certain electrical problems. I called LL and they sent me a new 2-8-8-2, no questions asked. Assuming that a problem will exist based on third party discussions, doesn't necessarily mean the problem will happen in the loco you ordered. I have 3 Bachmann 2-6-6-2's from two e-tailers, all three ran without problems. None exhibited any of the issues that have been discussed on the forums. Perhaps my three loco's were "lucky" not to have any running issues. The wheels were in gauge and I checked the loco's for over lubrication. With all steam loco's, I expect to make some adjustments. That's the nature of N scale steam. It's something you learn to live with in N scale. Stay cool and run steam....
Bob, So what's the stink on this? If someone does this to you, you'll find someone else? Wouldn't all of us do the same? </font>[/QUOTE]No stink - didn't mean for it to sound that way. "Wouldn't all of us do the same?" You might think so, but some of the recent threads sound like the buyer either feels "stuck" with what they got, or feels delighted they got a lumpy running one, so now they have the extra challenge of trying to figure it out, like that is a "bonus" or something. I don't get that, but to each his own. My point was, I doubt very many of us would keep a non-railroad item that was bogus, or even buy a non-railroad item at street price if we could not return it for refund if it was bogus. I should have said it that way, and it would not have looked like it had an "edge". Thanks for pointing that out.
Some of us are missing the point, I already had one loco from this outfit that had gauge problems. So I sent it in to the company.. Not to get )*)()(*again, I requested that they check the gauge of a 2 6 6 2. Since the latest information is none of them are in gauge. Has anyone have a 2 6 6 2 that follows the NMRA specs exactly??? please report if you do. Since this isn't a field fix, and right now bachmann doesn't have an answer to this as yet. I have no intentions of purchasing this loco unless the seller can verify that at the locomotives wheels are in gauge. They won't do it. So if the product if flawed and they know about it, and won't test it to see if its flawed or not, than reservations or not, I won't complete the contract with them. Because whats the point of sending it back to the seller, he can't do anything with it, other than give me credit, Bachmann can't do anything with it because theres no fix as yet. Yet I'd have to pay shipping both ways, for what just to have credit on another purchase??? Rob
Rob, Just what is it you are so concerened about? 1.The engine, You have already stated several times in this post that the engine might have a gauge problem.This is a manufacturer problem.I can't figure out why they would send a item out this way.If they don't have a fix for it I wouldn't buy it.I would imagine that if the item wasn't selling due to this problem the manufacturer will be quicker at a fix than if people were buying them and waiting. 2.Or is it the hobby shop? This is the other reference you keep making.That the Etailer you use isn't doing something extra for you.If every shop did extra things for every customer then every customer would expect those extra things done every time.And if Harry wants gauge checked and Sally want's coupler height checked and Bill wants both lights checked and Joe wants ..........It would just snowball into a big headache.And if they do it once people would want it all the time.Or someone would then be upset that they did it for Bill but not for me they must not need my money that bad then.Or when something extra is overlooked people start getting upset.Not for the shop selling new items but for the shop not doing all the extra stuff and going the extra mile they feel they should. Rob you said it yourself that the engines should have been checked at the factory before they were shipped to the distrubutors.If owning this engine is this important to you why not go to a local hobby shop.Ask them if you might be able to check the gauge of the wheels on a engine you are looking to purchase and go from there?The worst they can say is no. Someone else mentioned that we should pressure the dealers that we want ready to run models.That is exactly what they want also.They don't want customers to be upset that things are wrong with newly released items.Look at what this post is about.Someone upset that a engine was made out of gauge.Which is a legidimate problem I understand.But they also have to preorder in today's limited run world.They just try to get in things they know their customer might want.They make the orders long before a review of any kind is made.So they can't forsee problems with engines at all.I really don't think they would have made a preorder at all if they new the engines would turn out like this.Much like we wouldn't have made the preorder either if we know it. [ 21. January 2005, 12:41: Message edited by: Ed Pinkley#2 ]
SOunds like this whole mess is stating a case for going to a brick-and-mortar hobby shop to get a looksee at the product desired. That is, if you're not more than several hours away from one.....
Yeah, go to a brick-and mortar store and pay more. If one wants preferential treatment, one must be willing to pay for it. Al
I'm going to side with the consumer on this one. Regardless of our sympathy for the etailers eaking out an existence in the dog-eat-dog, low-margin world of N scale; there is a responsibility to only sell people merchandise that is suitable for use upon arrival. As Rob pointed out, based upon numerous reports, I think it is full within his (and anyone else's) rights as a consumer to share his concern with the merchant and fully expect not to be sold a unit that will immediately need to be sent to who-knows- where for who-knows-how-long to be "corrected". If, after that, he is still sent a non-conforming unit then the reasonable course of action might be to dispute the credit card charge. If accepted, that places the responsibility for remedy upon the merchant. Regardless of our personal feelings, there are consumer protection laws in place that govern these types of situations. I should quickly add, that it is always better to try to work things out with the merchant prior to involving a credit card company. I remember doing that with mail-order trains exactly once. It was when a large order was shorted one item (I was charged) and the merchant would not answer his phone or return an email. I got my credit (for about $15) and continued to do business with that person. The credit card (and associated regulations) is our friend folks.
This is especially true, since in the last five or more years, I have spend countless of thousands of dollars at this particular place. This is the first time I ever put in a similar request. Rob
Unfortunately, some suppliers have a short memory. Despite giving them constant business and handling all of the small stuff directly with the manufacturers; some will still suddenly forget all that when you have a request that is slightly out of the reserve-charge-ship cycle. I guess that's why we are fortunate to have choices with regard to our on-line purchases. That, in some respects, is a benefit of the demise of the LHS. Like it or not, more people are being forced to use etailers, which creates more volume for those in that line of work, which increases competition and benefits us consumers.
