Call for advice: operational scheme

pachyderm217 Feb 4, 2008

  1. pachyderm217

    pachyderm217 TrainBoard Member

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    In a my Space-saving staging: sector table thread in the Inspection Pit, the discussion took a serendipitous turn to my overall trackplan.

    BOK wrote this:

    "I printed out your trackplan last night and have been looking at it over this morning for operations ideas. Some thoughts and comments based on my railroad experience.

    With the N&W prototype and the wooded hills this leads me to believe at least a 50% emphasis should be on hauling coal. (Yes, I agree. TWH) Maybe a mine along the lines of a Walthers model or a coal washer/mixing facility (loads in/loads out) along with a truck dump loader or two on one of the spurs would not only emphasize the N&W theme but also provide additional switching possibilities. I really like the appearance of your track and scenery which looks like a "back in the hills well-maintained but secondary line railroad. It kind of climbs the hills, squeals around sharp curves, runs beween buildings and gives the appearance of a rural line. (Thanks, that tells me I'm successful so far. TWH)

    I like your choosing to add various industries which use a variety of freight cars such as tank cars (for both fuel oil and LP gas) box cars for the grain elevator and manufacturing industries, small, covered hoppers for fertilizer and cement, flat cars for machinery and of course hoppers for the coal. Another type of industry which can use some of those colorful, plug door, boxcars and reefers would be a vegtable/fruit cannery at one of your current factories. I have a photo taken years ago, probably close to where you now live, at small elevator siding on the old Wabash/N&W known as Myra station showing a BN mechanical reefer spotted there for unloading nursery products for a near by garden supply business. The same could work on your team track area next to your elevator and bulk plant.

    Your choice of 40-50' cars and smaller diesels go well with the sharp curves and steep grades on the layout. Your choice of shorter 16-20 car trains looks good on this type of layout and fits the topography well. If it were my layout, I would consider the originating point for the railroad to be the yard over the concrete bridge. Here I would add a small, one-stall, engine house, on a spur with another spur alongside the house to hold a tank car for unloading diesel fuel to a small storage tank, a spot for a covered hooper of sand (to be directly hooked up to the sandtower and temorary sand storage) and a couple of extra car lengths of track to hold a caboose or two. I would locate the coal mine or washer on the spur to the right of the yard as a source of heavy originating car loads ... a reason for the yard to be there. In addition, I would try to de-emphasise the curving down hill track (which makes a continuous connection to the rest of the layout and a trailing connection to the sector yard) by hiding it the trees and a cut to visually separate the upper originating yard from the lower sector/terminating/interchange/"connecting to the rest of the world" yard. Possibly a truck dump coal loader to suggest the continuous connection is a spur in the woods.

    Along with additions to the yard, I would add a small passenger station/ freight station/ yard office and add a bit of passenger service. This could be a combine or coach added to one of the freights to work as a "mixed train" or a dedicated Bachmann gas electric or Kato RDC-2 or 3 to handle not only the few passengers but also a good amount of mail and Railway Express. The era you appear to be modeling looks like the 1950s-1960s (yes, early 60's, circa the N&W/Wabash/NKP merger. TWH) and an passenger operation of this type would work well.

    As far as over all operation, I could see a solid coal train or two with at least one manifest or through freight each way between the sector yard and terminating yard, a local freight to handle the industry work and which works as a turn from the originating yard out to the midway town and returns and finally the daily passenger run from the originating yard to the sector yard and return."

    Given such a great start with good advice I didn't expect, it's time for me to move forward with operational design.

    So, here's my current trackplan:

    [​IMG]

    I unwound the trackplan to map the relationship of the towns along the line.
    Here are two operational scenarios based on the unwound map:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Today's questions (likely the first installment of many):

    1. Which of the two scenarios do you suggest I use?

    2. What specific coal operations can I model believably? Tipple, washer, other processing plant, end user?

    Here are some ground rules to guide the ensuing discussion.

    1. Other than the two sidings marked 'COAL?', the track location is fixed. I'd prefer to use what I have. Those sidings can be modified a little if needed.

    2. I will operate this layout alone using regular DC.

    3. Ultimately, I'm leaning toward sequence operation with a simple car-movement scheme. I don't want paperwork or car cards.

    4. I don't want to pack as much as possible into the layout. I need to keep scenes separated by heavily wooded areas to give a believable illusion of distance.

    Alright, folks. Bring on your advice; I'm listening eagerly.
     
  2. BOK

    BOK TrainBoard Member

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    Todd:

    I vote for Scenario 1 to provide a nice, straight -through flow to the operation. Primary movement would encouage traffic moving from the originating yard through the midpoint town with oil, grain ,seed, team and grocery customers and terminating in the sector yard.

    I would build another track off the first one to the right of the originating yard and add a large tipple or washer facility to emphazie the importance of the yard. If you choose to make it a tipple you will have mtys come from the sector to become lds of coal outbound from the originating yard back to the sector yard. If the facility is a washer /concentrator facility, you will bring loads from other areas of the layout (a tipple/truck dump facilities) to the washer before leaving the originating yard in solid coal trains to terminate in the sector yard. The local freight business to the other industries can originate as loads in the sector yard and either be directly setout by the road freight on the way to the originating yard or brought there and then handled by the wayfreight/local back to the industrie with mtys going back reverse route.

    The movement of coal also brings up the challenge of moving visible lds/mtys. An alternative to coal, would be the use of a cement plant as the primary industry with heavy, little, two bay covered hoppers which would eliminate the need to re-position open top coal hoppers to represent lds/mtys.. Along with the cement traffic, which logically would appear in heavily wooded and hilly country you still could have a coal tipple or a truck dump or two. In addition, to the outbound cement, a cement factory also receives inbound shipments of sand, limestone and fuel for the kiln... either coal or oil and more variety of car types. Just some more suggestions to "cloud" your thinking.

    I have really enjoyed providing assistance in helping you with operations questions and only wish I could have the same enthusiasum for continuing construction on my small 30" x 12', twelve switch, shortline layout.

    Have a great week ,

    Barry
     
  3. pachyderm217

    pachyderm217 TrainBoard Member

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    Barry,

    You've given me a great deal to digest. Thank you! I've now got several new possibilities to explore. I'll try to update the Scenario 1 map for your review.

    Next question for any and all:

    Is it realistic to find industries along the tail end of a exterior siding in a yard? I'm thinking of a 3-4 car per week demand at the far end of my yard. The majority of the that siding would be used daily as part of the yard, except for the tail end at the industry site. When the local were to put/pull at the industry, the yard siding would have to be cleared temporarily. Sound reasonable?
     
  4. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    Todd:
    There is a long stretch of single track across the back of the layout running at 44.75 inches. It shows as a dashed line... it that because it is not visible?

    Is there enough space to put a second line parallel to the first from the bridge/overpass on the left to the siding that starts near the overpass straight out from the sector table?
    Such a hidden siding could be used for staging a coal train: one session the empties would start there, going counterclockwise around the layout picking up loads and dropping off empties at coal tipples or yards (maybe even using the sector table in a backing movement to exchange a long cut of hoppers). The next session (or a later shift in the same operating session) loads travel around the layout also in a counterclockwise direction, but this time industries are receiving loads and empties are getting pulled. You would not exactly have empties in and loads out, but it would be a close approximation that would only require set up every other session. (Or go with the cement/sand scenario with covered hoppers to eliminate any set up hassles.)

    Or, make one of the first train's tasks pulling the caboose from the hoppers and running it back to the sector table where (later in the operating session or at the next operating session) an engine facing clockwise will pull it backwards to the left end of the hidden staging to couple onto the loads, then couple at the other end to pull the loads around the layout dropping them at coal-using industries while picking up empties. If you come out of the hidden staging on the left track that goes under the overpass in front of the sector table and curves up toward the yard, then you will be able to go around the entire layout and onto the sector table without going over the same track twice.

    If you made the pick-up-loads train the last one of a session and the drop-off-loads the first job of the next session, then you would be able to start from the sector table, traverse the entire layout and park the hoppers on the hidden track (which could be the main only instead of a newly installed siding). As part of the pick-up-loads job, the engine parks the caboose on the siding by the overpass leading to the yard. When the next session starts, a correctly facing loco backs from the sector table, couples to the loads parked on the hidden main, pulls them forward and backs them to pick up the caboose, then serves coal to the industries while picking up empties all the way back to the sector table. (I suppose that, if the siding in front of the sector table is long enough, you could park the coal train there between sessions..it would certainly make the caboose shuffling a LOT easier (and I suspect a lot more prototypic).

    Like BOK, I prefer the scenario that runs trains from the sector table to the yard and from the yard to the sector table with the option of running a turn from table to yard and back to table. I also agree with squeezing in a small engine facility near the yard...As indicated, lots of car traffic could use that track (sand, coal, gons of ties, ballast, flats of rails/wheels, scrap from a small maintenance shop or RIP track/facility), especially if there were provisions for a team track, or for an interchange track that was mostly hidden except for the section near the turnout where you would need to couple/uncouple cars.

    I don't know how prototypic it is...but one way I've increased switching action on my layout is to put 2 tracks at an industry and make one of them a loading track and the other a holding track. To serve an industry, the loads are pulled, the holding cars are moved to the loading track and the new cars from the train are put on the holding track. Works with open loads or covered...and with loads being emptied. In one industry I made a tank washing track where all tanks must be spotted before they can be placed on the loading track. Same type of scenario as a holding track. Doubles the amount of switching at any one industry without needing to double the length of individual trains.

    This scenario can work with scrap yards too, with the added job of pulling every car over the scales to weigh them every time they come in or go out of the yard. I know this is done by a dedicated scrap yard switcher in one scrap yard in Peoria, and that the P&PU Ry performed this service for another scrap yard located near their Kickapoo Yard (from which the P&PU also served the nearby steel mill).

    Tomorrow I'll post about a paperless car forwarding system that I'm using.
     
  5. BOK

    BOK TrainBoard Member

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    Todd:

    Back in the 1960's growth of rail business generally was handled by building a switch (at customer expense) and then the customer paying a contractor to build the spur into the customer's facilty again at customer expense, or if not suffecient carloads/revenue to justify a track, the new business was handled via a team track public spur. Later on in the 1980s/90s with the growth of regional/shortline railroads,
    innovative companies would load/unload a customer's car(s) anywhere on any track including if necessary temporaily on the main track. I have managed shortlines where this happened often and would cause no end of train operation "challenges" waiting for a customer to finish loading/unloading cars so I could clear the main, running, track in order to switch other customers and make timely interchange with my Class 1 carrier.

    Enough history. Could you do it on you layout and have it be believeable for the 1960s? I believe you could, as I do recall an occasional customer, could be a dust control outfit who billed tank cars to a destination close to a customer and then unloaded the cars directly into trucks for further movement or application. In addition, the end of the track could have served a facility like an ice house or cattlepen or packing plant which for a number of reasons is close to shutting down and only requires infrequent service rather than daily when it was an important customer. You could also locate a "new" industry such as junk yard, LP gas facility, or a fertilizer distributor as all these industries were growing in the late 1950/60s.

    It's your railroad. Enjoy!

    Barry
     
  6. BOK

    BOK TrainBoard Member

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    Todd:

    Another thought just occured to me regarding industries and their "age". Looking at your beautiful layout, I see most industries are pretty aged and could be representaive of an earlier era say... 1930/40s. How about having atleast one industry be brand new utilizing a small Micro Engineeringi or Rix products building ?This would indicate that while changes are occuring in the customer base, your railroad is innovative and willing to change and add new customers in order to survive and grow. This could also be reflected in choosing to build a new Rix one stall engine house rather than an old wooden one. Just a couple of ideas to help your layout come alive.

    As a side note. The reason for all the suggestions, is I like this era, I began my railroad career in 1966, and because I model a modern short line many of these ideas won't work.

    BarryI
     
  7. pachyderm217

    pachyderm217 TrainBoard Member

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    Barry, you're my hero!

    I really appreciate your 'been there, done that' expertise. I've been trying to learn how small, rural railroads were operated back then but I haven't known which questions to ask. Your excellent answers show up before I even know the question. (insert here: memories of Carnak on the Tonight Show)

    Your suggestion on the modern buildings is certainly wise and valid. I'm thinking of a new LP dealer on a spur somewhere.

    Just for additional context on this evolving operations discussion, I've posted a few more photos in my Trackplan album. The captions will shed a little light on my developing ideas. I hope to have an updated system map posted later this week showing location names and industries.

    Dave,

    Your ideas on train movements have given me plenty to explore. Still sorting it all out.

    You are correct; the long single track main across the back at elevation 44.75" is concealed. The hidden staging siding just won't be possible, though. The photos I've posted tonight in my Trackplan album may help show why. Even if it were possible, hidden staging at arm's length that requires scenery liftout removal doesn't appeal to me.

    I've seen the holding track / loading track concept show up in some other trackplans. It appears somewhat prototypical. Industries with a small private switcher or a Trackmobile-type critter could move cars in and out of the the load / hold spots themselves, ideally without fouling the main. I will likely use that approach on my two newest sidings.

    I'm not really worried about visible empties versus visible loads. I spent so much time in Air Force training exercises simulating that a critical piece of equipment suddenly wasn't available. I could see it, I had just used it, but I was instructed that now it wasn't there. They taught us how to play pretend back then; great preparation for model railroading. 'I can neither confirm nor deny that those coal hoppers are loaded.'

    Keep the great ideas coming, folks! I really appreciate your help.
     
  8. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    Todd:
    FWIW: I've used computerized programs like ShipIt and RailOps on others' layouts and I wrote an Access program that set up switchlists for about 450 cars in about 40 different trains on a smaller, previous layout. Reconciling the cars' actual locations with where the program said the cars should be was a pain in the caboose for others and for me, so, with my current layout I've been using a paperless system.

    This is a description I posted in the Inspection Pit a year or so ago, of how cars can be routed around a layout:

    [quote = ppuinn]To determine how I want cars to move about my layout, I've used an almost paperless system. This system, the Alphanumeric Car Movement System, was developed by Walt Gabehart, an N-scaler in Springfield Illinois. He runs trains along his point to point layout, and has cards next to each industry along his mainline indicating the types of cars that can be accepted at each industry. When the train comes to an industry it is scheduled to switch, the operator checks the card for proper car type to be accepted. If the siding is empty, then he finds the first car in his train that matches the industry car type and spots it. If the siding is already occupied, then he checks to see if he has a car in his train that is appropriate for the industry. If so, he compares the reporting marks for the car in his train with the marks of the car on the siding. The car with the road name initials that are first alphabetically, is the car that gets left in the siding. (Or, on other runs, the operator may pick to spot the car that has the higher last digit in the car number.) If both cars share the same RR initials (or last number), then neither car stays on the siding. At the next operating session, the car that gets spotted may be the car that is LAST alphabetically or has the LOWEST digit.

    His system is easy to learn, simple to operate, self-repairing (mistakes get corrected automatically the next time a train comes by), essentially paperless (no clipboards with switchlists, just cards on the fascia near the industries), and CHEAP!! I can testify that set-up time--even for over 700 cars--is WAY shorter than setting up the switchlists or reconciling the computer printout with actual locations.[/quote]

    For some of my industries, I've specified general car types (e.g., box car), specific car types (e.g., 50' box or Double plug door), dedicated cars only (ADM cars or Corn Products, or Lonza cars only), loads only, with specific RR or Leasing company reporting marks only, and even specific reporting marks and numbers (even numbers on track 2, odd numbers on the 3rd industrial track).

    Interchanges trade out cars on a 1 to 1 matching of car types (3 boxes on the interchange track get exchanged with 3 boxcars in the train, if they're available). I sometimes limit # that can be exchanged, sometimes say, "take 'em all! and leave 'em all!", and sometimes say "match number of cars exchanged, but don't worry about car types." Since operations on the P&PU are primarily designed for having fun, I tell operators to work just as hard as they can and still have lots of fun...so (within a few relatively broad constraints) they can set their own level of complexity, ease, or challenge at the interchanges or at the industries.

    This method does not track the car's movement beyond the single movement from staging/yard to industry/interchange, or from industry/interchange to yard/staging. Because operators do not need to be concerned with the next destination after the movement they perform, it is conceivable that Train 3 picks up a "loaded" UTLX tank car at the oil refinery and takes it to the main yard, but the Yardmaster puts it on train that will drop it off on at an industry to be "loaded" rather than emptied.

    It would also be possible to assign specific classification tracks for all cars that come in from a particular job: Train 7 brings cars in from the "East" so they may only be assigned to tracks 3, 5, 9, 17, and 18 which have cars going to the "West".

    I'm still trying to work out the exact method for classifying cars in the large P&PU Yard, but it will be a variation on, "This is the list of cars that can go out with the train leaving from Track 1, these on track 2, those on 3, etc." I could get very limiting and always give a specific track assignment to each car that gets classified, or I could get very flexible and just offer a few general guidelines for the Yardmaster...not sure yet how I'll set it up. Right now I just make sure there are at least 3 or 4 cars in every train that can be switched with an industry along the route (unless I'm running a freight train in which all cars go from the P&PU Yard origin to the Staging Yard destination).
     
  9. BOK

    BOK TrainBoard Member

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    Todd:

    Thanks for the new picture of your layout they have given me some great examples in handling the difficult challenge of how to hide/suggest the main track disappearing from view. Your use of the girder bridge and grove of high trees definitely suggests to the eye that the main continues through backdrop rather than disappear into concealed track. I also like the way you handled the track leading out of town and downgrade through dense trees ... very effective.

    Both these examples give me some ideas on how to construct scenery on my layout to disguise departure from two ends of a wye and concealing the end of a balloon/reverse loop track.

    Keep up the good work.

    Barry
     
  10. pachyderm217

    pachyderm217 TrainBoard Member

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    I have to give credit where credit is due. I learned some big lessons from Frary's & Hayden's C&DR HOn30 layout of the late 1970s and Gordon Odegard's N scale Clinchfield project. The Clinchfield layout did a great job of separating scenes with trees and topography. N scale makes it easy to hide trains and track with trees because it's easy to make realistically sized trees.

    Back to the original subject now.

    Based on the collective input to date, I've updated my operational schematic with town names and industry names. I've finally decided that this layout models the fictitious Myersville Branch, Scioto Division, Pocahontas Region of the N&W. This locates the layout in the Ohio River Valley in the Kentucky, Ohio, West Virginia area. That's all the details I have settled on for now.

    [​IMG]

    Tonight's question: What should Banneker Manufacturing actually do (see schematic above)?

    It doesn't yet have a specific product or service defined. It needs to be a believable industry for 1960's western Appalachia served by a rural branch of the N&W.

    Here are some options I've considered: fertilizer, machinery, bricks & clay products.

    I'm a little stuck on this one and I need some outside advice to get me moving again.

    Anyone care to share an opinion or two?
     
  11. pachyderm217

    pachyderm217 TrainBoard Member

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    Progress resumes

    BOK wrote in one of the responses above...

    "If it were my layout, I would consider the originating point for the railroad to be the yard over the concrete bridge. Here I would add a small, one-stall, engine house, on a spur with another spur alongside the house to hold a tank car for unloading diesel fuel to a small storage tank, a spot for a covered hooper of sand (to be directly hooked up to the sandtower and temorary sand storage) and a couple of extra car lengths of track to hold a caboose or two."

    I've been monkeying around with operational schemes made possible by my new sector table and indeed BOK's advice fits perfectly. So I've jumped in. Here's photographic proof.

    I had to create a level roadbed for the added sidings. All my roadbed is foam.

    [​IMG]

    This shows where the new sidings will go. The turnouts and track have already been soldered together but not installed yet.

    [​IMG]

    A little latex paint to seal the foam and I'm done for the night, waiting for it to dry.

    [​IMG]

    Now, I'm still needing help on engine facility details. Keep reading .......
     
  12. pachyderm217

    pachyderm217 TrainBoard Member

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    Which option is better?

    I see two options for the arrangement of my engine house and yard office. Please take a close look at these two options.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    OK, so here's my question: Which option for configuring this engine house and yard office is better?
     
  13. Lownen

    Lownen TrainBoard Member

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    I like option 2 better. I think using the yard office as kind of a backdrop for the fuel/sand station would look good. I also think parking a train on the MOW track will make the area more interesting to viewers
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 2, 2008
  14. BOK

    BOK TrainBoard Member

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    I like option 2. It appears to be more compact and fits better.

    That said, I would have tried to place the yard office next to the lead and in front of the engine house track. In practice once the switch and road crews go to work at the yard office, where there are locker room facilities, they then get their switch /outbound train lists from the yard master and train orders from the operator before beginning their shift or run. The closer this facility is to the yard, the less tracks crews have to walk over to get to their trains. Also the closer the yard master is to the lead, the better he can see the switching being done, can make any corrections to the crew if necessary and can follow the moves on paper so it corresponds to the physical movement of the cars.
    Now, does that put your yard office in the wrong position in relation to the lead? No, and there are options. Although it is not common, in small yards such as yours where the office is a couple tracks away, just ensure you have a small road or well worn but maintained path for the crews showing how they get to the lead, and try to provide a little clearance on the two tracks for the yardmasters view. Another possibility would be to place the office up on a little hill or construct a bit of a small tower into the office structure.
    Again, I like your layout alot and I am sure with your research and fine construction,
    this will not only a realistic but fun railroad to operate.

    Barry
     
  15. pachyderm217

    pachyderm217 TrainBoard Member

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    Barry,

    I always learn much more than I ever expected when you write. Thanks! I'm very privileged that you would share your expertise and experiences so generously.

    It sounds like the yard office might be better located across the yard throat from its position shown in option 2. From that location, the yard master could see right down the yard ladder. To reach the engine house and fuel dock, crews would cross four tracks on a busy gravel road.

    Would that modification improve upon option 2?
     
  16. BOK

    BOK TrainBoard Member

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    I think that is a good option.
    Try to leave a little room for employee parking. For a yard this size I would estimate about a small space to handle 12-18 vehicles... probably pretty strong on pickup trucks. It should cover about two road crews (4-5 men each), a switch crew (4 men), yardmaster, operator and clerk (3 people), a section foreman and helpers (4 men), a locomotive machinist/electrican and helper( 2 men) and a couple of carmen. The office folks and section would go to work at the yard office. The mechanical department folks ( locomotive and car) would go to work at the engine house with its own little attached office. Also, not all people would work the day shift. Some would work the road jobs, mine jobs, maybe a night yard engine and operators job at so the lots don't have to hold the maximum number of vehicles all the time. You might also want to include a yard office yard light at the entrance to the office, a couple around the engine house/fueling/sanding area and three or four along the switching lead so the crews can see better to switch at night.

    You are on the right track. Keep up the good work. More than happy to help.

    Barry
     
  17. ppuinn

    ppuinn Staff Member

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    I like Option #2 also...but wonder if it would be possible to put the Yard Office on a small rise located in the triangle formed by the new turnout, the visible existing mainline that curves away into the distant left, and the nearest of the trees that are next to the area in question. Located here, it would have a great view of the yard to the right, the arriving main that is out of the picture to the left, and the visible part of the main that curves away behind the (newly repositioned) yard office.

    The sand/fuel facilities would go about where the yard office is located in the Option 2 pic and the engine house would be positioned just as it is depicted.

    If you're still able to do it, perhaps putting a little more space between the two new tracks by curving the engine house track back a little closer to the treeline so you open up the front of the engine house (between the engine house and the MOW area of the front track) for adding details to the area around the engine house. Since it won't be too easy to see any details placed behind the engine house, you'll have a little more space in front of the engine house to "play" in and scenic with interesting RR yard details and engine shop details.

    Making the engine house track subtly curve away from the MOW area will also provide a little more space to put a small materials yard at the very end of the caboose-MOW track. I think this would be consistent with the local terrain, too:
    1. The yard itself is in an open area along a ridge between the trees,
    2. the yard office is relatively convenient to the engine house and is located on a hillock that provides a little elevation to see into the yard as well as both directions on the main,
    3. the materials yard would be close to the MOW equipment and engine house and positioned along the far edge of the ridge (where a RR might avoid building the foundation of an engine house or the tracks supporting heavy engines or rolling stock because of fear of erosion down the hillside.) (I suspect the erosion might be likely to occur because there are no trees on the far side of the ridge...But the lack of hillside trees is really a good thing for the design of this layout, because you'll be able to see that siding in the valley on the other side of the ridge, and you won't have trees getting in the way when you reach to clean track toward the back of the shelf behind the yard.]

    If you are comfortable putting a track serving the depot that comes straight off of the main in the throat of the yard, then you could build up the front of the layout between the main and the fascia board and put the materials yard and MOW and/or Rail Express siding/team track in front of the yard and have a RIP track and small machine shop attached to the engine house at the end of the caboose track on the back side of the yard.
    Hmmm....On second thought, if you are going to use ground throws for the turnouts in the yard instead of motorized switch machines, then you may want to avoid adding any siding near the depot because you'll be constantly reaching over cars on that track to manage the ground throws, and a slight miscalculation with an elbow and cars at the front of the layout might take The Plunge.
     
  18. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    operating in both directions

    Forgive me if I repeat someone elses suggestion, I sort of skimmed a bunch of the discussion.

    I can see running the layout many different ways. If you think of the layout as the computer and the operations as the software, it would be possible to have different operating schemes so that the layout does not become boring. You might consider keeping both operating schemes. Perhaps the days operating scheme is the first card or train order you pull before running.

    One thing I was thinking of, was to have a train of a different road name as a transfer run that could back off the sector plate and run to the yard. It could then pick up a string of outbound cars and go back to the sector plate. Then the yard engine could make up that days local to the branch, as well as sorting some cars as bound to the sector plate via the home road.

    Also of note. The N&W ran steam until 1963. If you are not running steam, you may want to push your date up to the mid sixties to seventies. I think it would be cool to have at least one steamer online just for the fun of it.
     
  19. Triplex

    Triplex TrainBoard Member

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    1963? Sorry, but it's a myth that any Class 1 had steam that long. N&W retired/stored its last steam road power in April 60 and the last switchers in May.

    (The myth I'm referring to is the DM&IR. Yes, they rostered steam until 1963, but it saw no regular use after June 60.)
     
  20. traingeekboy

    traingeekboy TrainBoard Member

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    I had a book about the N&W's transition to diesel. The book claimed that N&W was the last class one to change over. In it a date in 1963 was the last date a steam engine was used to pull freight.

    The book could be wrong. Now I'm thinking I just remembered it wrong.

    O. Winston Link took photos of the N&W's last days of steam. The dates I find for his photography are 1955 to 1959.

    found this date online:
    May 7, 1960
    The last use of steam, in regular service, on the Norfolk & Western, as 0-8-0 #291
    ends its shift at Williamson in the pre-dawn darkness .

    I found this date as the last class one steam loco run:
    October 12, 1962
    Last use of steam, in regular service, on the Colorado & Southern. 2-8-0 #641,
    working the Leadville-Climax line, had been the last standard-gauge steam locomotive
    in regular service on a Class 1* railroad in the US


    Kind of cool info here:
    August 11, 1914
     

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