Hello all. I am building my retirement layout, in HOn3, and have selected the C&S NG South Park Division as my prototype. The towns of Webster, Jefferson, Como and Faitrplay are included, with Como being the main focus, as it was the division point for the C&S. The approximate time frame to be modeled is the late 1920's, with the assumption being that the Alpine Tunnel is still open, and the mining business in the Gunnison area and Leadville is still thriving. Passenger service to feed the mining industry is also planned. The track plan below is my latest version of the layout and I would appreciate any feedback you might have, especially from an operations perspective as it is not my strongest suite. I have shown it to folks who stop by my blog and on the Model Railroader forum, and have incorporated some changes, but I think getting lots of feedback before I get too far into the construction phase is a good thing. The second pic will give you an idea (not completely updated to reflect track planning changes) of the terrain to be modeled. There are tall timber trestles at the center-top curved section, and at both reversing loops. The one on the lower left loop is 62 inches long, and the one on the right will have a through Howe truss for the approach and a tall timber trestle with an opening for the first third of the curve. Would really appreciate your thoughts. The Layout and all locomotives will be DCC, with DCC control of all reversing loops and switches, including the 3-way stub switch behind the roundhouse (using a new 3-Way Stub servo controller, being offered by Jerry Wilson, who will demo this item at the National NG Convention in late Sept.). The minimum radius is 20 inches and all switches are hand-laid by Glen Thomas of Cream City Turnouts. Motive power is provided by a stable of C&S brass imports with DCC/Sound conversions. Current roster includes 2-6-0 #s: 6, 7, and 9, and 2-8-0 #s: 58, 60, 69, 70, 71, 73, 74, and 75. The three Ridgeway Stack equipped D&RGW C-19s, loaned to the C&S in the late 1930's, will be added as soon as they are released by Blackstone Models. Thanks in Advance, All the Best, Don
:thumbs_up::thumbs_up: I like that ! what scale is it? N scale? In My opinion you should double one or double sections of tracks (main and siding) for better operations with long trains. just my less than two cents... enjoy your project:tb-biggrin:
HOn3, I assume. In that case, those passing tracks seem a little short, even for the short trains I expect. What's their capacity? I'm no expert on the C&S, so I don't know how the locations on the plan correlate to real locations. Which points are supposed to be close together and which are supposed to be miles apart?
Don't know much about your RR either, but their is no real yard in your plan. If you're just a collector of NG steam engines your Coma facility is great but where are you going to store cars? If you're like most of us you'll amass alot of cars. Have you though about a hidden staging yard? You do have plenty of places to spot cars though. Also you could easily add a wye between the Palisades loop and Webster's siding to make it easier to turn your locos for the return trip.
Revised Track Plan Hello again, Thanks for the comments and suggestions! The revised track plan is depicted below. The yard at Como is very close to the prototype's configuration, but I have added additional sidings to the left side of the yard, to help alleviate the storage issue. I have also put in the Y at Webster. I think both modifications are outstanding recommendations. As for additional explanation and answers to the questions: - The scale is HOn3, and I have updated the original post to reflect this. I also wanted to tell you, that because of the size of the room, we plan to run the operation with only two, maybe three operators. - The maximum grade on the layout is 2.3 percent, between Como and the area just to the south of Jefferson (prototype grades were 4 percent, with double heading up Kenosha Pass the norm, but there was no way I was going to have grades that steep). - If memory serves me correctly, the approximate distance between Webster and Como is about 12 miles. - As for the "passing siding" issue, train meets on the C&S narrow gauge were pretty rare, especially by the late 1920's, but the typical train length is 4-5 freight cars plus a caboose. For passenger runs, two coaches and and a baggage-mail combine are the norm. My longest locomotive plus 5 freight cars and a caboose, is about 32 inches in length, with the passenger consist being about 27". The Jefferson passing siding is about 35-36 inches in length, so I think I'm OK there, as I checked clearances on my full-sized plan. Really appreciate the feedback...please provide comments on the revised track plan. :thumbs_up:
Being an inveterate track plan doodler couldn't resist changing you yard. Gave you one more track & got rid of the "S" curves in it. While pleasing to the eye they can give you headaches when switching. BTW did a little checking of your "stations" and most of them are along US 285 w/ Palisades "way up in them thar hills". LOL
I Love it! I'm actually chuckling out loud, as I made almost the exact same changes (see revised above), only I didn't get rid of the S curve. Will make the changes you suggested and post the final plan later tonight...as you can see, I also figured out how to add hidden staging to the adjoining room As far as the "Palisades" go, modelers license. Just had to have 'em, and didn't have a football field size room handy...if you look closely, you will find the ARGO Mill and Tunnel, just to the north of Webster.
It was just a really really long tunnel right? On your 3d rendering, I saw that you had a crossover from the main leading into Como to the Como yard (upper left hand corner on you plan - lower right on the 3d). But that crosover isn't there on the layout plan. Are you going to include that? I think it would be a good idea because without it trains coming into Como would have to travel almost to Fairplay in order to get into the yard.
I like everything about your track plan and layout design.:thumbs_up: What looks to be a three foot reach over a distance of five feet to the Como yard tracks running next to the wall bothers me.:tb-confused: I would consider shortening the length of what appears to be an industry track or move the associated turnout down the engine yard ladder in order to reduce the bench work depth in front of the yard. You have a great layout planned. Enjoy! Jerry
Some really awesome feedback here guys...I'm pretty tired tonight, after adding the yard tracks on the left (getting it all to line up, is a bit of a Chinese puzzle), but will finish up tomorrow and post the new plan.
Have to agree w/ Jerry that you have some very long reaches in the Como area - ditto w/ the loops in front of Webster & Fairplay sidings. Guess you have the loops for some continuous running. Here's some thoughts: 1. have single track mains come off both ends of Como and run those to your two loops. 2. Compress Como down to 2 1/2 feet w/ one siding & lead to hidden siding. 3. put the Webster and Fairplay sidings in front of the loops (w/ hidden access inside loops).
OK, Try This One on for Size OK guys, Spent hours pouring over the suggestions and redesigning. Here are the changes: - Connected the track north of the Como depot to the yard tracks on the left side of the layout. This allows west bound trains approaching Como on the southern main line to get to the yard and storage tracks easier. - Cleaned-up the storage tracks on the left side of the layout by using two more three way stub switches and cleaned-up the main line. I also added several crossovers to allow trains better access to the yard and storage tracks - Added a crossovers to the double track main on the right, just north of Webster - Shortened the siding leading to the car repair shed to reduce the reach to the back of the layout at Como. I don't think the reach at Webster is a problem, as the track on this side of the layout are very close to the fascia, and the reach to the tracks along the right wall is never greater than 3.5 feet. All switches are at least a #6, and min radius for curves is 20 inches; All the best, Don
Nice track plan improvements Don!:thumbs_up: I hope these changes did not cause you to deviate too much from the prototype. I think you will find the double ended yard to be more accurate than the stub end storage yard tracks. The additional crossovers will enhance operations greatly and are most likely present on the prototype. Are you aware of a switch lead track on the prototype or did they use the mainline for the drill track? Level of traffic would dictate the need for a drill track. This is a great looking track plan and layout design. You are going to have a lot of enjoyment building and operating this pike. Jerry
Hi Jerry, Thanks so much for the feedback (everybody else too), as it is greatly appreciated. As to your questions, this 'final' track plan is actually very close to the prototype's configuration. Here are the differences: -There are several storage tracks to the northeast of the turntable, some of which connect to the turntable and the mainline, which basically 'cheat' the turntable. On the prototype the roundhouse had seven additional wooden stalls that were connected to the stone roundhouse shown on my plan, so these storage tracks allowed locomotives to exit the wood addition from either side. This wooden addition burned in the late 1930's. I have room to add the addition in the future, but connecting the roundhouse leads to the main is just not possible, due to space and minimum radius considerations. - There is only one crossover in the Como yard and it's to the right of the area where the Depot and Eating House are located (far north end of the yard), but adding the additional crossovers shown on my plan will help operation tremendously, so I think it is worth the compromise. - The other differences concern the three storage tracks on the left/west side of the yard. On the prototype, the northern most 3-Way stub is actually several hundred yards to the north of the round house. Tracks 1 and 2 are through storage, connected by two face-to-face stub switches, and track 3 connects to track 1 with a left-hand sub and the siding is dead-ended on the south end. I did it the way I did to enhance operation, without seriously degrading the historical configuration. - I had to curve the tracks in front of the Depot and Eating House, as I just don't have the space to represent it correctly, and made just a few small changes to the mainline to allow for continuous running. -The 'Y' at Webster is not prototypical, but like all the changes, it's a nice compromise that I am willing to live with.
This will be a nice layout. And with the turnouts from Glen Thomas you have a good choice. I've seen them at a friend. Will you build it with code 55 ? :angel: Wolfgang
Really like your latest version of your narrow gauge Colorado & Southern. Too bad there's no way to get Palsades off of Fairplay vs Jefferson/Webster. But like the others have said you're going to have alot of fun operating this layout. Helping a friend build an HO version Santa Fe 2nd Dist. (San Bernardino to LA via Pasadena) but he's a Sn3 modeler so he's going to put that on another level above the Santa Fe!
Hi Cajon, Thanks for all the great feedback, I really think the layout will be much better for it. It's funny how just a few sets of "new eyes" can help you spot potential issues, and help you figure out how to resolve them. Here is a revised 3D view and some close-ups of the Como Yard, for you to look at. It's about as historically accurate as I can make, based on some pretty detailed research.
Bench Work And here is a 3D shot of the bench work. I plan to get rid of the legs on the far wall, and use support L-brackets, just like the ones shown under the Como yard. The two reverse loops will be supported as shown. By the way, the planning software used to create these views is 3rd PlanIt. If you take the time to learn how to use it, you will save countless hours planning and building your layout...best money I ever spent! And no, I don't own any interest in the company
