BRIDGES&TUNNELS

Hi all, I'm as new at this as anyone could be.I'm building my first layout with my NINE year old son who has absolutely no patience for me to finish it,but I need some ideas/pictures of the different ways to cross over or under track.IE bridges or tunnels. Please keep it as simple as posssible.Thanks

 

First,
Welcome to Trainboard...I think you will find a lot of fun and intelligent folk here who can help out with just about any questions you have . Before I can answer your question, I think I need to have some more info . What is your layout like?? How big is it and what is the track plan going to be like?? Will it be permanent or something that is temporary? How many times does the track cross over itself?? With a bit more info I think we can help !!
John

 

Welcome to the TrainBoard BELG & Son! May I suggest you could consider (like a figure "8"), you could use a simple crossing track with both on the same level? Or, you could make an over-pass, or under-pass. There are a couple of places or more, where the real railroads used a half over half under type crossing to the same 2% grade, but the design reduced the length of approach grade needed. Figuring of the top of my head, in N scale one foot is about .075" so 100 ft = 7.5". A 2% grade is a 2ft rise (.150") in 100ft (7.5") and say an engine is 18ft tall add 4ft clear above that add 4 ft for bridge beam, so track would have to be 1.95" minimum. At 2% you would need 97.5" grade to get above the train below inorder to cross. B ut if you used the half and half, then you would only need about 4 feet. You can actually climb steeper grades, but that is roughly close to real railroading, see?

It is easier to just lay a bridge on a couple of blocks high enough to clear a train sitting on track. That tells you how high you have to be. (Use your tallest car, like a double stacker). Now make the approaches to the bridge, what ever grade you have to have to get up to the bridge.

Put some straight track on a long 2x4 board( 10 feet). set one end on a brick to start. Set an engine and some cars on it with the engine going up hill. Turn the engine on and as it slowly starts up, raise the end of this board higher and higher until your engine slips its wheels. That is the steepest REAL grade you can pull. Make your grade on your layout a little less steep and you should have no trouble for this first layout. Don't be afraid to experiment, you will need your dad to help you. Its always easier when there is two working together. Enjoy.

 

I'm very happy for the responses I would like to enter my design/layout but don't have a scanner. How can I get it on the site?

 

Hello BELG (or should I say Patrick !!!)
The friendly guys here at Trainboard are ready to help, all they need is a little more info. Do you have a drawing package on your PC (no matter how basic)that you could use to create a plan of your layout? You could send it to me (you know my e-mail address) and I will post it to Trainboard for all the others to see.
Best wishes,
John

 

Hello BELG. You could check with your local library they may have one (a scaner) or know where you should be able to get it scaned for free.
your son's school might even have one.

 

I now have a scanned picture but need to know how to enter on to the site.Help!!!!Please keep the computer instructions simple.

 

Hi train wizards now that my plan is on the site I hope that the ideas will be coming soon.The piece I'm having most trouble with is where my track crosses itself on a curve. I'm modeling my layout in the style of 1950's Pennsylvania Coal mine area.The layout will be a permanent set-up.I would also still like to know how to enter a scanned picture for the future,seeing as I'm far from being done. There will be more opportunities for me to enter another question without having to rely on help from others. Thank you for the help.Go Devils

 

Is the problem getting a curved bridge over the track? If so I suggest using trestle works or modifying a couple of commercial plastic bridges to fit the curve.
John

 

Very disappointed in the help guys. Not even one of you could give some reference literature,picture,or even a sketch. I've gotten questions upon questions and nothing that will produce any results.So in other words thanks for NOTHING!!!!!!!!!

 

BELG

As noted above Trainboard currently only allows posting of photos and drawings that are currently on an internet website. If they are only local files on your home computer, then there is no easy way to display them here. This affects not only you, but all of us here at Trainboard. If you were expecting instant photos and drawings to be posted here, then I can somewhat understand your frustration, but certainly not your negative tone.

Colonel noted that changes are planned in the Trainboard software to make posting drawings and photos easier in the future.

I've found the members here at Trainboard to be very helpful, but when trying to solve a problem or situation in layout planning it often takes a lot of give and take -- there are no "instant" answers.

You might also check your local hobby shop for this book from Kalmbach:

Model Railroad Bridges and Trestles
From Model Railroader

Teaches how to build sturdy model bridges and trestles of stunning realism. Includes construction plans, prototype photos, and over 20 sets of scale drawings for scratchbuilding, kitbashing, or modifying commercial bridge kits.
8 1/4 x 11 1/4; 152 pgs.; 100 B&W photos; 100 Illustrations;
Item No: 12101
Perfect-bound softcover; Price: $19.95

DB

 

BELG,
As the person who suggested you joined Trainboard I feel particularly disappointed by your unnecessary comments.
Before people can help, you need to help yourself by asking the correct questions and furnishing as much detail as possible. Before you joined Trainboard I tried to help you myself (as I have willingly done with many other modellers) but such was the vagueness of your questions that it took three e-mails before I guessed that you were modelling the U.S. scene and NOT European Alpine railways. Even then it was only your mention of trestles that gave me a clue.
I know that railroad modelling is not always as therapeutic as we would like and that it can lead to frustrations but believe me you are definitely going the wrong way to get assistance by responding the way you did.
Trainboard is not frequented by mind-readers and neither is it run to provide you with a supply of free photos, diagrams and information. I have no intention of going into detail but one thing that your e-mails did make clear was your desire to spend as little as possible on researching and planning your layout. This in itself is no bad thing but I feel that you will have little success until your manners improve.
John Whitby

 

Gentlemen I apologize for my negative tone,but in all fairness until I wrote a negative response no one took much interest in my post.I would think that since I stated that I was a beginner,maybe somebody should have guided me along the right line of questions and answers to get to where we are now,if there were questions I did not answer it was because I did not know any better.I hope you can understand my frustration about going back and forth one question at a time and a nine year old asking me EVERY DAY WHEN ARE WE GOING TO DONE.John a special apology to you and any other people who had genuine interest in helping me.Belg

 

who is the 9 year old???

 

Hey Belge & Son, Jennifer didn't understand the 9 year old, is your Son and Partner! Now she will know!

I have been buisy on other forums, so haven't had a chance to know you were having trouble. If you will look up at the top edge of my post, you will see several little icons. The first, left to right is Profile, then www, then Mail, etc. Click on MAIL and scroll down a bit to find my e-mail address there. E-mail me off line your Snail Mail address, and I;ll send you mine. Then if you have a photo, or sketch you need scanned, snail mail it to me, and tell me where you want it posted, and I can do that to help for awhile. OK?

Now, about your Layout diagram. I have a CAD program and will draw your layout to full size and file it. That way, I can downsize it to scan and post here for you from time to time as you go along, see? If you wish. (That is an offer, not an order.)HA!

For your curved tunnels, I would suggest you get a large piece of blank paper, the side off a large cardboard box, or even a piece of poster board from school supplies, anything to draw on to get some measurements.

Then, use a pencil, felt pen, crayon, and tie a piece of string to it to make a large compass, and scribe a curve of the radius you plan to use at one of the tunnels. Mark or punch a small hole where the pivot center is for this curve, because you will need to know where this center is to make the next 2 lines, and to lay out the tunnel enterance and exit. That first line will represent the center line between your rails. It will be easier for you if you will scribe another line on either side of the center line, that is where each rail will actually straddle the center line. (I do this with a hole for my pen at one end of a small stick, then drill holes sorta staggered where I need to make the inside rail line, the center line, and the outside line, follow me? That is another way to do it. (Lots of ways to skin this KAT!)

Now place your longest car so its wheels are on the lines as if they were rails, and the MIDDLE of the car is located where your tunnel portal, (entrance) will be. Make a mark there so you can come back to it.Hold the car, and gently lay your pen along the side of the car, and mark a line along the car side from end to end, on both sides. This will show you where the car HAS to go.

Now, remove the car for now, and use a yard stick to make a line from the CENTER POINT of your curve, through the mark you made at the middle of the car, and continue on across the rails several inches. With this done, you should have a cross at the point where your car is closest to the center point of your curve radius. Allow 1/2" for clearence and make another mark parallel to the car side across the yardstick line you have just drawn. THAT is the inside edge of your tunnel portal no matter what, see?

The other side of the tunnel portal has to clear the END of the car as it comes into your tunnel, so now replace your car as before, but roll it along the "rails" until one or the other END of the car is directly over the Yardstick line. Make a mark right at the outer most corner of your car across the yardstick line. Again allow 1/2" for clearence, make another mark, and you have just found the absolute inside of the outside portal! With a different color pen, make a mark to connect the inside and outside marks, and that will represent how wide your tunnel opening, will have to be at the enterance end of your tunnel. Celebrate!

To mark the EXIT end of your tunnel, swing the yardstick around the original center pivot point until it comes to where you want the EXIT to be, and again place your car as before. Follow the same proceedure, and you will never have a car hit the side of a tunnel going in or out, regardless of what the Gauges say. If you have an engine longer than your longest car, or if you have a steam articulated engine, then of course use them instead of the car for the outside measurements of the tunnel.

Work with this a bit and I'll bet your son catches on before you do! He will never let you live it down either!! HA! I know!

Bridges are almost the same method.
E-Mail me if you have any questions, OK?