1. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Looking for straight answers about Brass. I have asked Nscale vets who collect brass if Brass runs better than the plastic models.

    I know brass is heavier than plastic and for the most part, more weight often means better perforamce. I like the look of the OMI models SD70's. What are the drive units on these like, do they have flywheels?

    Please post your answers, thoughts and knowledge about Brass in N scale.

    Thanks
    Matt
     
  2. eddelozier

    eddelozier TrainBoard Member

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    I have two brass engines. One is a M1a steam and the other a DD-1 electric. Neither one is a good puller...!
    I think they still weigh about the same.
    I read somewhere that you could add much more weight to the model engines. The motors can pull the extra weight very easy. I wish I had
    something heavier then lead...no more room for extra weight.

    Eddie

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    Eddie Delozier
    PRR N-scale
    deloziers.com
    eddelozier@yahoo.com
     
  3. BC Rail King

    BC Rail King E-Mail Bounces

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    N Scale Brass,

    Well, I wish I could say I have heard and sean good things, but that would be a lie. And frankly, I am not in the mood to lie to some one about an magor ticket idem.

    They are high on looks, but not drives!

    Dane N.

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    TAMR2860-AKA BC Rail King
    TAMR2860@hotmail.com
     
  4. Gats

    Gats Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Want a heavier subtance than lead? Tungsten, in a powder form.
    Positive - Can be mixed with a binder (wood glue) and cast in the shape you require.
    Negative - COST - it's expensive!

    [​IMG]
     
  5. swissrhb

    swissrhb TrainBoard Member

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    In our opinion, N-Scale brass is "dead". Since plastic technology has caught up with and surpassed that of brass, there is simply no longer any reason to pay the absurd prices that the importers are charging nowadays. One of the reasons that brass prices have risen is because no one is buying it anymore.

    There has always been this great mystic about brass but believe me it's more of a myth than anything else. In 10 years of selling N-Scale and being able to get any brass model we want at cost, we have a total of 2 models on hand. Neither of them work very well, they are just "museum pieces" to us.

    The other thing about brass is that getting parts is a nightmare especially after the model has been out for only a few months.

    N-Scale is exploding right now as the number of posts in this forum indicates. Have a little patience and the loco you want will most likely be produced in plastic. There is no reason to drop a huge sum on brass. Buy the plastic loco and some detail parts. Take any leftover money and go to Vegas. At least if you are going to throw money away, you can have some fun in Vegas instead of putting it into a brass "boat anchor".

    [This message has been edited by swissrhb (edited 06 August 2000).]
     
  6. sd75mac

    sd75mac Guest

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    I have three OMI units, SD9043MAC, SD70MAC and SD75M. The problem I have (which was corrected in the C44/60 release) is the electrical pickup. They have these nasty little wipers that only pick up from 4 of the 6 wheels in each truck. I changed my SD90 to DCC, but plan to have a professional re-do my work.

    Overall, they pull well for me.

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    Keep on Track'N
    Harold Riley
    www.phcomputing.com
     
  7. Designdog

    Designdog TrainBoard Member

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    I bought a brass Texas (2-10-4) locomotive and it was beautiful to look at, only problem was it couldn't even make it through a large oval without stalling. Many "plastic" steam locomotives I've owned also broke down after just a few runs.

    One problem with many hobbyists is that they are unwilling to pay more for quality products. Good products, when they are available, require support from customers. But manufacturers are also to blame. So far I've seen almost nothing in N scale steam that justifys a large outlay of cash. But, if we are lucky one day there may be some good quality performers that will come to market. They will be brass and they will be expensive. Will you be willing to support it?

    Rey Wellman, DBA Micron Art http://www.micronart.com
     
  8. rray

    rray Staff Member

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    Right now...I'll pay whatever they charge for decent running steam. I want Pacific's, Northerns, and switchers. All I have is 4 Mikes, and they run just fine. For some reason, model railroading means steam to me, and I dont care if it is brass, plastic, or clay, as long as I can operate with it.

    What would be neat is if someone came out with a line of good running base wheel arangement drives, and brass shell kits to make accurate models of different prototypes. I would like to super-detail a brass kit.

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    Robert Ray
    The NP & UP N-Scale Railroad
     
  9. Maxwell Plant

    Maxwell Plant TrainBoard Member

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    Brass...you can have it. I pay enough for the plastic models and they will run circles around the brass stuff. Looks good, except for the handrails, but runs about as well as water at the North Pole in the dead of winter. [​IMG]

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    RAILROADING-TO-THE-MAX, Burlington Northern/Santa Fe Style!
    Brent Tidaback, Member #234
     
  10. BC Rail King

    BC Rail King E-Mail Bounces

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    There you go, I can't member who said it, but there was a good comment make, plastic has come so far, that Brass is basically for the top of a fireplace (well protected).

    There you go,

    Dane N.

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    TAMR2860-AKA BC Rail King
    TAMR2860@hotmail.com
     
  11. ChrisDante

    ChrisDante TrainBoard Member

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    I've owned one Riverossi and 5 brass engines for the last 21 years. As someone earlier said to me modeling means steam. But the other day I decided to go to Tony's Train Exchange and bought a doodlebug for 29.95. Not a bad price. (yes it is a Bachmann and it ran beautifully out of the box). The thing is it runs rings around my "mortgage payment" brass engines. This dosn't mean I'm buying plastic engines, it means that I have to fine tune my brass. The detailing, heft etc is awsome.


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    When in doubt, empty your magazine.
     
  12. mtaylor

    mtaylor Staff Member TrainBoard Supporter

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    Fine tune like gut the insides and replace with new motor and drive tran? How come no one puts a flywheel in steam locos? Brass or plastic. I think this would make or break an engine's performance.

    Matt

    I have to stop posting messages after working 14 hour days! Nothing I type comes out right [​IMG]

    [This message has been edited by mtaylor (edited 08 May 2000).]
     
  13. virtual-bird

    virtual-bird TrainBoard Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mtaylor:
    Looking for straight answers about Brass. I have asked Nscale vets who collect brass if Brass runs better than the plastic models.
    Thanks
    Matt
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    well Im new to modelling, and I was asking bout brass at our club on the weekend...
    theres a guy that has 5 brass. 1 runs as it should.

    after grabbing his ankles and assuming the position to buy it, it only cost him on top of buying it another $500 to get it to run..
    bargain...
     
  14. Designdog

    Designdog TrainBoard Member

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    Well judging from the responses I've seen in this catagory "N Scale Brass Steam Locomotives" are they worth it? The majority are leaning towards "no!" Micron Art is planning to build, prototype and release a number of Z scale brass locomotives and brass rolling stock in the next few years, but I think we'll stay away from you N scale guys not because you wouldn't be somewhat supportive, but because you have all had extremely bitter experiences with N scale brass. I do both N and Z scale layouts and I must say that my all of my Z scale stuff performs better than my N scale stuff. Attention to detail must be the secret and many of our N scale manufacturers (except for Arnold and Kato) have not payed much attention to the extremely important detail of good performance above all. Like you say, "brass is just an expensive mantle piece" if it doesn't perform well and I don't blame you for that evaluation. I'll keep you posted if I change my mind but for now I don't think we'll be going into the N scale brass locomotive business. Thanks for your honesty guys.
    Regards,
    Reynard Wellman, DBA - Micron Art http://www.micronart.com
     
  15. Chris McDaniel

    Chris McDaniel TrainBoard Member

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    Reynard,
    I don't think it's just N scale where there is dis-satisfaction with brass. This past month person I know purchased a brand new Grand Trunk brass steamer (HO) for $1800.00. He took it to the local club for an operating session. The steamer didn't run at all. The reason - pieces of the drive were broken and some parts weren't properly secured. He figured at $1800.00 quality control should be better than perfect. He got his money back.

    I've heard similar complaints among other HO and N modelers. That's not to say there aren't nice running brass locos out there, but it seems like complaints are rising.

    Unless I hit the Big Lotto, I flat can't afford brass locos. I don't think brass is over-priced; however, there's just too many other demands on my paycheck. Also, for the price of one brass diesel, I could buy four or five Kato or Atlas locos.

    I don't think you should use the small sample size on this board (or any other board or list) to determine whether you should jump into N scale brass. If you produce nice running, quality brass equipment in a popular road name, I don't think you'll have a problem. There are enough other brass manufacturers that have tubed themselves on the quality. Also, there are plenty of N scale prototypers that are looking for road specific locos (particularly steam).

    Just my 2 shekel's worth [​IMG]

    Look Ahead, Look South
     
  16. Designdog

    Designdog TrainBoard Member

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    Wow! $1800 for an HO brass loco that runs like a three legged horse, what a rip! I've never owned an HO brass anything but I've always admired them. Guys & gals in the Z scale community have nothing to complain about, they have some great running brass steamers out and they only cost from $500 to $900. If those moguls and berkshires didn't perform well all Zed heads would be screaming their lungs out right now amd believe me it's a tight nit community... word gets out fast.

    As for this so called small sampling of N scalers on the Trainboard - it does reflect the overall picture. Micron Art has been participating in some of the train shows here in Texas and we hear everything from the public. The price of items is always an issue but they don't realize that the smaller scale, the more intense is the design effort. It's kinda like the saying about New York city: "If you can make it in Z scale you can make it in any scale." So far that's been true.
     
  17. virtual-bird

    virtual-bird TrainBoard Member

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    why do you need brass? thousands of other N scalers run the good ol' plastic bodys and metal runnin gear without complaint...

    yea I wouldnt buy brass EVEN if I won lotto..
     
  18. ChrisDante

    ChrisDante TrainBoard Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mtaylor:
    Fine tune like gut the insides and replace with new motor and drive tran? How come no one puts a flywheel in steam locos? Brass or plastic. I think this would make or break an engine's performance.

    Matt

    I have to stop posting messages after working 14 hour days! Nothing I type comes out right [​IMG]

    [This message has been edited by mtaylor (edited 08 May 2000).]
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
    No you don't have to gut the insides and replace the motor. Most brass engines come with good "can's". You have to make sure the running gear is loose and runs free.

    putting a flywheel would be tough, spacewise.



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    When in doubt, empty your magazine.
     
  19. Designdog

    Designdog TrainBoard Member

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    Wow, just mention N scale brass and almost the entire posting site goes thumbs down. This just confirms my own bitter experience with N scale brass mantle pieces. Someone should forward this entire topic and postings to the those brass manufacturers they have been bitten by so that they can see and reap what they have wrought!

    Again thanks for your honesty guys. Micron Art will stay away from N scale brass.
     
  20. sd75mac

    sd75mac Guest

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    Good! If others stay away from the OMI C60's, then they won't be sold out and I can get one.

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    Keep on Track'N
    Harold Riley
    www.phcomputing.com
     

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