Correct me if Im wrong(which is highly likely) but can someone explain why so many different locos are available in Brass that are not available in Kato, atlas etc plastic?? I know from what I hear in here that brass is crap and to steer clear of it.. but why dont Atlas and Kato make em? SP. GP60 BNSF SD75M etc... ------------------ CK& Bird Butt Railroad - Its a coal mining region of a place far far away, that shares rails with SP, NS... Era: Time stands still round these parts, and we have everything from Steam, to Diesels...
Virtual-bird, The two reasons I had heard for making brass equipment were 1) road specific equipment and 2) detail. I think the detail argument is going away considering the quality of recent N and HO models - Intermountain, Atlas, LL-P2K, etc. Plastic models are showing details that you'd only see on brass 10 years ago. The road specific argument may be around for awhile. For example, the Atlantic Coastline had road specific caboose (like other railroads). Many (not all) plastic model manufacturers would like their models to carry more than one roadname to increase sales. If they make an ACL only caboose in that one roadname, they won't sell many. (There aren't many of us ACL modelers out there). Now they could make an ACL M-5 caboose and slap an Illinois Central name on it, but it wouldn't be a model of any real IC caboose (and IC fans would know it!). You might find it in brass though for a price! I think that's why alot of steam locos are done in brass -- each road's steam locos had their own character and look, as well as, passenger and traction equipment. Again, for a price! As for the running quality, I can't answer that. If I shell out 4 or 500 bucks or more on a loco, I want it to run like a Swiss watch! Until I'm on the other side of hitting a major lottery, I'm not in the market for brass (and maybe not then). I'll just chop and bash to get the models I need for the Southern, Seaboard, and Coastline railroads. Look Ahead, Look South
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris McDaniel: Virtual-bird, The two reasons I had heard for making brass equipment were 1) road specific equipment and 2) detail. I think the detail argument is going away considering the quality of recent N and HO models - Intermountain, Atlas, LL-P2K, etc. Plastic models are showing details that you'd only see on brass 10 years ago. The road specific argument may be around for awhile. For example, the Atlantic Coastline had road specific caboose (like other railroads). Many (not all) plastic model manufacturers would like their models to carry more than one roadname to increase sales. If they make an ACL only caboose in that one roadname, they won't sell many. (There aren't many of us ACL modelers out there). Now they could make an ACL M-5 caboose and slap an Illinois Central name on it, but it wouldn't be a model of any real IC caboose (and IC fans would know it!). You might find it in brass though for a price! I think that's why alot of steam locos are done in brass -- each road's steam locos had their own character and look, as well as, passenger and traction equipment. Again, for a price! As for the running quality, I can't answer that. If I shell out 4 or 500 bucks or more on a loco, I want it to run like a Swiss watch! Until I'm on the other side of hitting a major lottery, I'm not in the market for brass (and maybe not then). I'll just chop and bash to get the models I need for the Southern, Seaboard, and Coastline railroads. Look Ahead, Look South <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> hey Chris... yea I havent heard anything good about Brass, for the $ anyway. I was wondering they hand make brass locos? I just see all these brass locos that look so nice, but for $500+ even If I won lotto I wouldnt buy... Guy had one at the club one day.. it died in the tunnel.. typical place for it to die! ------------------ CK& Bird Butt Railroad - Its a coal mining region of a place far far away, that shares rails with SP, NS... Era: Time stands still round these parts, and we have everything from Steam, to Diesels...
The reason why more is available in brass is the limited run (although that is happening with the other manufacturers). Atlas, Kato, LL, etc. need to turn out enough profit to make it worthwhile to make an engine. Brass dealers make a very limited number (100 maybe) of a certain engine for a certain road. And they cost $500 or so. So they get a revenue of $50,000 from 100 engines, where a $50 plastic engine would need to sell 1000 models to get the same revenue. ------------------ Corey Lynch Pres - Rensselaer Model RR Society, NEB&W RR http://www.rpi.edu/~lynchc/Railfanning/railfanning.htm - My Site http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/ - NEB&W
Hello Brass Questioners, You are right about limited runs in brass. Brass shells, wheels, trucks, etc are all done in the "lost wax" casting method. An original master is made, a mold is created around the original, wax is poured into the mold, the wax "investment" is then submerged in plaster. After the plaster has hardened it is put in a kiln, the wax is melted out, raw brass alloy is heated from 1650F degrees to 1800F degrees in a melt furnace and finally the molten brass is poured into the plaster cavity. After the metal cools the plaster is shattered and the hardened brass is removed. The brass is cleaned and the sprues are ground off. It goes on and on... Whereas guys like Kato and Atlas will spend anywhere from 160K to 250K having tool hardened steel machined into the shape of an injection mold created by a master mold builder/machinist. These things have all kinds of pins and draft angles, all very precise. And these molds wear out after so many thousands of parts are made so they have to be rebuilt over a period of time. Once the investment is made, the plastic only costs pennies but you've got to sell tens of thousands of little trains before a profit is made. The advantage of the brass investment method, when they are well crafted, is that they can be unique items and modifications to the master are not that difficult. They also weigh in much heavier than plastic and therefore should pull more cars before the drivers start slipping. But quality varies from city to city and worker to worker with these handmade items, afterall we are talking about items that are made exclusively in Asia at a tenth of US labor costs. And so are the plastic ones. Try it before you buy it. If it runs well on your dealer's test track, then you're going to be happy when you get it home. If you buy some brass through mail-order, discount Charlies', ebay etc.then caveat emptor. Rey micron@micronart.com
Thank you Rey, I been trying to tell them, now it is great to have someone back me up! We also made aluminum Master molds fto inject the waxes for production runs. When the tree is turned, there may be anywhere from 2 to 10 waxes all sprued together on one stem. I have some photos of this, that shows the tree "branches" at the foundry. And yes I made the Hardened tool steel injection mold base inserts for plastics too, and have photos of them. That's why I still can't see over a hundred dollars retail, for an item that factory cost runs around $18.00 total. ------------------ Watash #982
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by watash: .... I have some photos of this, that shows the tree "branches" at the foundry. And yes I made the Hardened tool steel injection mold base inserts for plastics too, and have photos of them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Watash... If you have some photos of the process, throw them up here... I personally would be interested to see the process! Rey.. Thanks for the input... Good to hear from others that know their stuff! ------------------ CK& Bird Butt Railroad - Its a coal mining region of a place far far away, that shares rails with SP, NS... Era: Time stands still round these parts, and we have everything from Steam, to Diesels...
$18.00! Great, give me the name and address of this factory and I will send them tons of business. You guys are making these things for about 1/10 of what the Koreans charge. Am glad to see American work done so competitively! Is this really a finished, RTR loco like the Asians make? Please email me with the manufacturer's name and the contacts I will need to place my production orders with these guys. Rey
In my excitement I forgot to post my email address: micron@micronart.com By the way, if you are looking for some nice early 20th century Model Ts for an old-time layout go to http://www.micronart.com Looking forward to hearing from you about this factory. Rey
