Big Jake, pretty much covers how I will accomplish the connect. Thanks for sharing those ideas. I will eventually show you how I do it. I will need to change the elevation of the tracks as I did here to attach to the Kato #6 switch. As originally seen in the first picture. I'll just have to move back the elevator. Just kidding there's no elevator. Although wouldn't that be fun. The board that currently holds the stub end yard will have to be cut behind the #4 switches and raised ever so slightly, to align the Alas Flex Track with the height of the Kato Switches. The one thing I don't do is use Unitrack solutions to solve my track problems. Instead I get in there and cut the Unitrack to fit what I'm doing. Sounds like a Dentist Office, all the sounds of drilling emitted from my Dremel tools. Rip, cut, tear, solder, squeeze, vacuum debri away, slide railjoiners in place, check gauge, wipe off my glasses and then go take a nap. I said, chuckling all the while. Keep in mind I use code 80, Atlas Flex Track and Unitrack is code 70. Elevation or the top of the rails must be joined together for a smooth transition. Oh it gets fun!! Does that help?.
Many Trains, thanks for asking!! I was just over at the layout, looking at the potential disaster. I will have four Atlas Flex Track spurs to join up to the four Unitrack switches. I think I have it figured out. And I think Kato sent me enough track to bring everything out to where I can make one clean cut. Once Atlas Switches are removed and I get into the woodwork on the sub-roadbed. I'll have a better idea of what's required. We shall see what needs to be done. You know, if everything will fit like I think it should. If you believe in luck. Now there's something to bet on. Below, I think the light hits this just right so you can see the elevation change. Note at the diverging end of the #6 switch you can see the sub-roadbed has been raised up. This allows for a smooth transition from one rail head to the other. Smooth is the word here. By the way Mike Fifer has several videos on You Tube of how he does things similarly to what I do. It would be worth anyone taking a look-see. He works with a foam sub-roadbed while I work with particle board. Having fun yet?
There is a back story. One that will tell you much about me. Okay, so I'm fearful to share it here but at my age how is telling it going to hurt me. The years of attempting to impress employers passed me up a while ago. In high-school (parochial setting and one I hated) I was taking shop class, mechanical and architectural drafting. Classes I enjoyed and were or is it was? Actually teaching me something. I was learning about elevations and gradients. The shop teacher impressed suggested I go over to the math department and take Geometry. Okay, worth a shot. At some point I stood before my teacher and said, I m failing your class and have to much on my plate to give this my full attention. He said, Yes you are. Teach, there is one thing you need to teach me. Okay, he said. On my HO train set at home I'm attempting to build grades. I need to know how to build a 2% grade? Is it different from one gauge to another? Well...sometime the answer can be longer and more complicated then it needs to be. I stood there stupefied or at least I thought I was stupid. The explanation goes on but out of exasperation I Stopped him, I said, I'm not leaving until you make it simple enough for me to understand. Here's his answer. For every one foot of rise in one hundred feet, is a 1% grade. For every two feet of rise in 100 feet, is a 2% grade. Now scale that down to HO for every two scale feet in rise for 100 scale feet is a 2% grade. Just remember whether you are making it complicated by scaling it down or use straight up measurements a 1% grade is still a 1% grade. It won't change. Edited add on: I oops'd at first attempt this should be correct now. That works for any scale. My Geometry teacher scored high in my eyesight and I was off and running to build a train layout with grades. Was it easy. Not really. Nothing comes easy for me. Perhaps there is a finish to the story that needs to be told. I dropped out of the class and went back to algebra, something I did understand. He continued to coach me and I was allowed to sit in his classes when the subject matter was relevant to my layout. Rick, can you sit in class today. This might interest you. You know if it's trains, I'll be there. What a guy!! He should of been a College Professor. Now break that down to what is a 1% for one foot, one real foot as in 12 inches. Don't give me that MM stuff. I said gritting my teeth. I'll get back to this later. I'm never intimidated buy guys or gals who are brighter, quicker and smarter then myself. I depend on them for their advice and help. We can all hang together and have some fun and learn something. I'm done!! For now. Later!!
Good teachers appreciate students' motivations, and will do whatever they can to nourish those motivations. But just to clarify, inches and feet are incorrectly mixed in the 2nd paragraph. Percentage (and slope) is unitless, therefore the units have to match so they can cancel each other out. So a 1% grade has 1" of rise in 100" of run, or 1' in 100', or any other unit of distance, as long as the same unit applies to both the rise and the run.
And then comes along Big Jake with something that just went flying over my head. Say what? No I got it but only after I read it for the third time. Thanks Big Jake for your input. Proving that no matter how you do the math it works out the same. It appears at second and third reading of the scripted scientific analysis that we are saying the same thing. At first glance I thought my old Geometry teacher had reappeared and was coaching me. That would be welcomed. Now down to what it is to be practical on a model railroad such as mine. N gauge of course. After playing with the math. Algebraic, I might add. 1/8 inch of 12 inches is equal to a 1% grade. 2/8 or 1/4 inch is equal to a 2% grade. Correct me if I'm wrong. Now on my layout most mainline gradients are 2%. In the coal districts they will swing from 2.8% to 3%. Any steeper and trains start to stall out. Rule of thumb, around here. A steam engine or diesel motor (locomotive or motor) must be able to pull ten cars up a 2% grade. Minus the traction tires. Traction tires are not preferred. Although tolerated until they wear out. The locomotive or motor at that time may end up in the parts department or scrap heap. I hope that helps.
Your reasoning is plenty close enough. 1/8" = 0.125", and 12" is 96/8 of an inch. Either way, 1/96 ~= 1/100, or 1%. Close enough for our purposes, and a whole lot easier to measure and work with. Of course, 10mm (or 1 cm) rise per meter of run is exactly 1% grade, and just as easy to measure if you have the right ruler/tape. It's also more convenient with Unitrack, which is designed and manufactured to metric specifications. Now, I'm gonna duck on outa here for a while, at least 'til the dust settles!
You better run and duck for cover. No, just kidding. You got to watch those M&M'rs they will throw me off every time. However, this time I was able to follow it. Aiiyiiyii. I think I scared myself, famous line by RS. I understand melt's in your mouth and tastes chocolaty good. Shouldn't tempt myself. Thanks Big Jake!!
Now comes the interesting and challenging part. How long a track do you need to gain sufficient elevation to safely cross over the track or tracks below? For example: The Williams Loop, near Portola, Ca., or the Tehachapi Loop near where else Tehachapi, Ca.. How wide a curve do you need, to be able to pass-over the lower track with safe clearance for an Autorack? I'll let you chew on that one for a bit. I'm in the middle of demolition of those dreaded Atlas Switches. I needed a break. Back Later!!
OH....OHHHH...OHHHHH...pick me! PICK ME !!! https://midwestmodelrr.com/atl2716/?msclkid=18007fb2afa71c898f1f1b09ce96bdc5&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=**LP Shop - Catch All&utm_term=4587368673052385&utm_content=Catch All You will notice Ricks atlas turnout have the remote switches. That is what he is trying to get away from with using the Unitrack turnouts with the 'internal' switches...JMO ! .
Looks like mtntrainman, has attempted to answer the question. Really George, the T word? Over the years in HO and N scale most of my Atlas Switches have failed me. Enough so, to where I have no love lost for them. As George illustrated with my picture. Nice choice of picture. He's almost right. I don't like the appearance of the automated switch machines and I find that different engines as well as various kinds of low slung freight cars can foul the switch. The front and rear pilots of the engines will hang up on the switch machines. The same with passenger cars and the steps or foot holds. Frustrating enough for me to spend the money and gladly replace them. I prefer to use Kato Switches, where I don't have direct access. The hidden staging areas or areas out of reach. In the yards that are accessible by hand, I prefer Peco Switches. The combination of the two make for interesting operations. The kind of success I want. Good one George!!
I forgot; you asked me a question: How to figure out how much track (run) you need to achieve a given rise to clear an obstacle? You can use slope (rise divided by run, with both in the same units) to calculate the run required for a given rise. Just divide the rise by the slope. For example, if you have 1% slope (=0.01) then you can divide the rise (2"?) by the slope (0.01) = 200". Algebraically, solve the equation "slope = rise / run" for run by first multiplying both sides by run: run * slope = run * rise / run, or: run * slope = riseand then dividing both sides by slope: run * slope/slope = rise / slope, or: run = rise / slope There you have it, divide the needed rise by the slope, to get the needed run. Now, there are additional details that go into the needed rise, like the thickness of the platform (bridge deck) upon which the overhead rails rest. So really, you need to rise the necessary clearance height, plus the bridge deck thickness, assuming the rail height above the base is the same as the rail height above the top of the bridge deck. These may not be the same, especially since ground level track typically rests on ties, on a bed of ballast, where the bridge rails often do not (they typically sit on a different structure on top of the bridge deck.)
Oops, "slope" is the same as "grade," in reference to non-level track. Slope is the mathematical term, grade is the railroading term. Both are defined as "rise over run", just grade usually expresses that ratio as a percentage: (rise/run)*100 percent.
Big Jake, and of course everyone tuned in here. Okay, this is what I did and I think it's the same thing or close. Check me on this. First off I had to determine what clearance I will need. In other words how much height will be required to cross over the tracks below. I think I came up with as a minimum acceptable clearance of 1 3/4 inches. That's from the bottom of the track, sub-roadbed to the sub-roadbed that passes overhead. In some places I have the height of 2 inches to 2 1/4 inches. Sorry my fingers aren't finding the :"{}";' right keys, see what I mean, aiiyiiyii. Easier to spell it out. I'll try harder. If I'm wanting a 2% grade then as already determined I need to rise or create a slope of 1/4 inch per linear foot rise.. That figures out to how many 1/4"s in 1 & 3/4 "s = 8. So I will need 8, 1/4 inch increments to make the rise. That means a curve that is 8 linear feet in overall length. Except there's something wrong with that. So, I got my compass out and stared measuring the circle that will give me an 8 foot run. That something wrong is I acually needed to go up one more 1/4" the height of the sub-roadbed. I can't lower it any further or my Hi-level passenger cars or Autoracks won't pass under the bridge. Have you figured it out yet? What radius curve will I need to make a 2% grade? Measuring my largest curve in the helix I rediscovered it is an 18.50" radius curve or 18 1/2" curve. It clears with one weird 1/8" additional height. No more or's in the water. So, according to my Geometery teacher, I did it the hard way. My mother never got over my using here three foot cloth sewing something or other, to measure the eight feet. Mother's are predictable that way. It actually comes out to almost 8 and 1/2 foot in length. Give or take where the tracks actually cross over each other. Now how did you do it and how well did that work? On my tighter curves such as in the Coal District the grade goes up or increases significantly. Last check they are 2.8% to 3.0%. You got it. They are shorter curves. More specifically a 15" minimum radius curve.
??????????????????????????????????????????? Which came first...the chicken or the egg ? ???????????????????????????????????????????
George, what came first?? You clearly don't want to know. Someone had to lay the egg you are cackling about. Back to the subject at hand. I might add the radius curves I used when building in HO scale are the same curves I use or used to build my N scale layout. In this case HO scale came first. About my layout, Steve a fellow HO enthusiast once said " If Rick would change out his track I could run my trains on his layout". Of course I'd have to change the clearances and grades would all but double. Gosh, I love what you can do with N Scale.
What is the length of the vertical easements you would probably want to have at the beginning and end of the grade?
Easements? Were we talking about easements? Now that takes some real math to get it right. Simply I estimated what I would need. Tried it out and when I found something that worked it was done. Length about six inches. Radius of curve. Anywhere from half an inch to one inch wider variance at the start and end of the curve. The wider curves, I happen to be using, pretty much minimizes the need for Easements. Since I use Atlas flex track I build in my own easements. I take some plaster of paris and build an abutment and allow the farmer an easement to get his trucks, tractors, herds, chickens or whatever he needs to move past the abutment. What? What? What did he say? Just had to throw a wrinkle in here. I can't let George, have all the fun. About myself: I'm more of a fitter, if you get my drift.
