BarstowRick's H&P Layout Restoration

BarstowRick Sep 15, 2020

  1. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    More pic's.

    Below: Here's the Triple Helix during construction. 2c-Triple Helix During Construction.jpg

    If you see a box marked Dodge. That isn't Dodge car parts that's a Dodge Fluid Box, embalming fluids. Great storage boxes.

    Below: The Triple helix is just about done. Temporary Bridges are in and all that's left is installing the main line around the front of the layout.

    2d-Triple Helix Almost Completed.JPG

    Below: Is where the two sections of the layout tie together. It's also the same area I had to remove in order to move the layout. Bridges had to come out. Risers and the main line had to be removed. Oh yes, tho "Wireus Repairus #1" Wires had to be cut and now I Get To put them back together.

    2 sections Joint as it looked when finished..jpg

    You'll see roughly scribed, "Reverse Loop". I had to go and make things complicated by changing a run. Turning what was a disconnected balloon loop into a reversing loop. Much better that way.

    Below: The circuitry I diagrammed for this reverse loops on the layout. There's more then one.

    Linear Control Panel Wiring Diagram.jpg

    Before I try to explain this. The reversing switch on the transformer is used for switching only. The two reversing DPDT's I built into the layout. They are strictly for the Main, Reversing Loops and I'll explain as we go along.

    Here we go: It starts with two reversing DPDT's at the Transformer or Power Supply. One is for the Main line and the other for the Reverse Loops, Wye's and Turntables. If you have a hard time following it. You wouldn't be the only one. I should diagram one using a darker pencil. Scan and bring it here.

    What I was looking for and got. I could run through any reversing loop without having to stop and reverse the Loop and or/the Transformer. This is much easier to work with. Reverse the main on the way out and it's a non-stop operation.

    Below: The two pictures of the linear control panels. These are temporary for now. When finished they will look the same but nicely finished off. The model railroad is to curvy for a map control panel. I choose to go with a Linear panel. Hoping to have train indicator lights built in.

    This is the Mainline up and back to the Hidden Staging yard. It's very simple. Cab A to the Left and Cab B to the right. Where two DPDT's are on top of each other, is where a siding has been installed. Before I forget. Cab A really is to the left of the control panels and Cab B is to the right. Simple.

    HP Control Panel  Waits Paint and Rail Lines Painted.jpg

    HP Control Panel William Jct. and Staging Yard.jpg

    I just did a Hummm and a What? When I looked at this last picture of the control panels. That's how long it's been since I've had the layout up and running. Although the way things are going, that could of been yesterday. Feels like it.

    The Center panel is for the Hidden Staging Yard With the Yellow Sliders controlling one Yard track each. Basically, SPST but fed from a DPDT. Or better said, Cab A and Cab B. Analog DC.

    I can cut in DCC to Cab B. Not something I want to do at this time Nor would I recommend it at this time.

    The control panel to the right is the Coal District. It is a two track district. The humm or question that pooped into my head was what was I thinking as there are some additional SPST toggles in the middle. That was old wiring before I changed up the top of the Coal District and extended the two tracks. They controlled two industry spur tracks. Got's to be able to handle the Empty Coal Trains without running into the Fully Loaded trains heading out of the yard. There will be two spur tracks and I may make some other changes so I will be, for sure, replacing this control panel.

    The DPDT's you see wired together laying on the top of my tool chest, are off a much older layout. They work very well and may eventually end up in a switching yard I have planned.

    Got's to get what I have back together first.

    There's more but I'm about to fall asleep. Stay tuned.:coffee::coffee:

    Later.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021 at 12:12 AM
  2. Doug Gosha

    Doug Gosha TrainBoard Member

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    Great! Yup, if a person just thinks logically about reverse loops instead of thinking they are mysterious and magical, it's much easier. I mean, after the train goes around the loop and goes back onto the mainline, it's going the opposite direction, right? So, the mainline HAS to be reversed.

    And, the loop, itself, doesn't necessarily have to have a reversing switch but if you want to be able to enter it from either route, yup, you need one, embalming fluid or not. :D

    Doug
     
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  3. Shortround

    Shortround TrainBoard Member

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    It's been over 20 years since I've seen so many switches. I got chosen to do the assembly because I was good at that sort of thing. It was designed by the electronics smart guy of the team. I had to move several times so, I'm away from that. I should have some books on how to do it but they are stored away for now.
     
  4. Hardcoaler

    Hardcoaler TrainBoard Member

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    I actually enjoy old-skool DC wiring, but only my own. Try as I might, I can't think through another man's work with an eye to repairing it. I've seen a number of layouts that lacked any sort of consistent, uniform wiring plan and they're the devil to troubleshoot.
     
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  5. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thanks for your comments regarding train layout wiring. Yep, I'm old school. Took me long enough to learn it. I read John Armstrong's books and often times found myself scratching my head in wonderment. What was he talking about? It begin to Click as Harry Hunter showed me. I'm a show me type and I'm good to go. It worked and I've been wiring that way ever since.

    One of the things I wanted was wiring I could follow and trace should I need to trouble shoot it. I bought a Multi-Meter and learned how to use it. Looked at my haphazard wiring in disgust. Today, the wiring is color coded and I should be able to put it together just by looking at it. Oops, I just cost you plenty for wiring. You know the color coding thing.

    With this "Wireus Repairus" project. I decided I needed something a bit more fool proof. So test lights that can be used later for lighting the interior of houses will be used to test the circuits while I'm connecting the wires. I'll know when they light up... I have the right circuit.

    Trouble shooting is simple or should be if the wiring is done right in the first place.

    All the books in the world won't help if the wiring doesn't follow a traditional pattern. The key is: Positive and negative polarity. You can't have one track block with one polarity and the other block reversed. Your lead locomotive will look funny as it automatically reverses itself. Back and forth, back and forth and don't think I haven't seen that. Now you got me tattling on myself.

    Now, when you get into Electronics for signaling, track detection that's a whole a-nother story. You better know what you are doing. Learn to establish patterns and color code your wires so they are the same color... from the transformer through the control panel's DPDT's toggle switches. It's when you leave each DPDT that you need a different color code for that particular block.

    It works! Trust me or not!

    Well, that's it for now.

    Catch you later.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2021 at 3:40 PM
  6. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    I don't expect any of you to trouble shoot my wiring. That's my trouble, my problem to solve. My fun and purpose in life. So no need, not to worry. Once I get motivated and started you'll have a hard time stopping me.

    It's time. Moving from the past to, today. You'll be able to see in some of these pictures the wires have been stripped on the tips or ends of them. Others haven't. Do I dare say, "So far so good?". Or did I just hex myself? Although, I don't believe in superstitions you could almost make me a believer out of me.

    Below: Is the spot where the control panel for the Hidden Staging Yard, once was. I took it off thinking it would get badgered and knocked around in transit. You have no idea how right I was.

    These wires have not been stripped. I will wait to do that until I get ready to put the panel back in. Yes, there's a Scoop Away box in the background. If you have cat's you have to have a toileitto for them. Stinky as that can be at times.

    DSCF1893.JPG

    Below is the control panel for the Coal District. Dave an electrician and good friend helped me take the layout down. We had to cut the wires loose from the other section. Of course, sripping these wires is a part of this project.

    DSCF1894.JPG

    One more. My Blue Eyed monster cat is helping me strip the wires. Chubbily or Chubby likes chewing on them. I'm not so sure that's a safe thing for him to be doing. You can put an eye out. You can see the tips of the wires, the insulation has been stripped away. Yes, there's two boxes of screws in the picture. I'll be putting up the Plasma TV and Valence with the actual engine numbers. Finding 2x4's to connect with will be difficult. They don't run 12" or 16" on center. Grrrrrr!!

    DSCF1896.JPG

    I'm working on one of Rick's Story Time. Let me know if you'd like to hear the story behind how we came up with the wiring for the Reverse Loops, Wye and Turntable. I think you'll like it.

    Okay, Cubbily off the layout. You don't belong there. That goes for you too Holly. Aww, but Dad!! Don't Dad me. Get off the layout.

    Working on pictures for the Valence. That's turned into a temporary night-mare.

    Later!
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021 at 6:41 PM
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  7. Point353

    Point353 TrainBoard Member

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    Obviously, the problem is because the toggle switches are labeled NO-OFF-NO instead of ON-OFF-ON. :LOL:
     
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  8. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Darn, it was as simple as that. :D:D No, I'm not going to turn them, at least not now. Maybe when I rebuild the control panels.

    Sharp eye and always to the Point 353. ;):cool:

    Well, played.

    Will they turn or do I have to flip them over? I said with a big grin. :):)
     
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  9. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Rick's Story Time,

    Back in Big Bear Country a bunch of guys met together at the Teddy Bear's Restaurant to discuss of all things a Model Railroad Club.

    I wasn't going to go at first and a friend of mine Don suggested we go and just see who turns up. More curious about who was going to show up then anything else. You'll see what I mean a little further on. He and I were currently building an O and S scale Toy Train Layout for my boss. We had talked about seeing if there was other's in the neighborhood who might share our same interest.

    We went and wasn't all that impressed. I could see that it was a guy with long stringy hair who wanted someone to build him a Toy Train Layout in N Scale. What we didn't know at the time was a fella from Barstow, Ca. who worked for Santa Fe had built him a nice train layout but he had decided he didn't like it anymore and wanted something more elaborate. This would end up being a pattern for him but this isn't about him.

    This same group of guys seemed to hit it off. No one wanted a CLUB :confused::eek::coffee::coffee: and was very vocal about it. The politics of a club? The authoritative President?? No one was interested in any of that. Other issues included scenic, track, wiring committee's had a way of changing things up all to often. This was one group of guys who made it clear. If we are going to go to all the trouble to build something then it needs to remain as originally designed, installed and hopefully we would get to operate it. It would need permanent housing and a way to pay for utilities, taxes, and upkeep. Dues? Expletives, I can't use here. Now with that out of the way. Obviously a no go. What were we going to do?

    Well, we each had train layouts in various stages of construction. Could we get together once a week at someones layout. We could work on it, shot the bull, run or operate trains. Well that would work on some but not on others.

    Only one guy that we learned about much later had his layout far enough along to do that. He had a point to point layout with switching puzzles and would open his layout on Wednesday or Thursday nights. Thanks John A. Many good nights and lot's of Railroad Fun.

    I think I said this earlier. This came to be much later as the group would change and shift depending on who knew who and so on. No one group of guys ever remains the same. The move away factor, heart stops and of course those personality conflicts and frustrations that can occur.

    We started meeting at various restaurants but one by one they asked us not to. They needed the tables for customers. Despite the fact we did order meals. Where can we go to meet? Then we found Carl's Jr. Just one of those circumstantial things. It started with: I needed to grab something to eat and called Steve asking him if he'd like to join me. That Western Bacon Burger, is good. He did and it wasn't long before the group heard about it and started showing up. We'd order something to eat, sit and visit and chit chat about our Train Layouts or anything else that came up. The Lady Manager of the time was glad to have us there. Our cars in the parking lot said they were busy. Food must be good. It was!! The only thing she asked is we order something and since things were typically quiet between 2 and 4 p.m. make ourselves at home. Just not on weekends. Not a problem. Have you ever been to Big Bear on a Weekend. Aiiyiiyii !!!:mad::mad::mad:


    Now we can get to how we came up with the wiring design for my reverse loops, wyes and turntables. You've probably guessed it was this same group of guys.

    Steve our Model Railroad Guru and later DCC Guru, along with Greg our Electronic's (Ham Radio and CB operator) expert. We started talking about the best reversing loop circuitry. One thing we all agreed on it had to be non-stop operation.

    Day after day went by as we brought pencils, note books, and diagrammed various ways and means to accomplish the same purpose. I don't think we ever actually stayed with the subject at hand. Drawing up layout designs, for Stubby and modifications for Steve and of course my layout. Then off we'd go to one or the other's home and layout for further discussion, build time, troubleshoot or sit on our butt's and do nothing. Summer was great because most of us had garage or shed stored layouts. Winter not so good. Often times they'd brown bag and sit under my awning to munch away. Stubby's layout got built and then torn down. Steve was finally able to add scenery to his and my construction kept advancing. (y)(y)(y)

    Then DCC hit, and almost everyone in the group wanted to make the conversion. One thing we wanted to do was use the same controller. This way we could bring our controller, plug in and play. We didn't make it that far. You have to agree. You got's to have a goal.

    Finally, I got to wiring my layout and I had to finalize how I was going to wire in the reversing loop's, wyes and turntables. Okay maybe one turntable.

    Believe it or not Steve and I got the idea from a DCC how to wire-in booklet in a ring binder we bought at a train show.

    I wired in a trail thing. Blazed the trail!! :sneaky: Oop's my bad I meant to say trial. A experiment. Liked it so well it became permanent. To our delight we found we could reverse DCC by flipping the Reversing DPDT for the Loop. Yes, I said DCC and didn't stutter. Say what? :confused::confused: Well, the author of the booklet said it would work. He or she was right.;);) It worked.(y)(y)

    We could never get Stubby to understand how it all worked and now you know why he tore his layout down. Oh well.:(:( He tried.

    Russ on the other hand got his layout built and we spent some fine Sunday afternoons at his place operating trains. DCC!!

    That's it in a nutshell. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Yes, I miss those guys.:cry:

    Later.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021 at 11:45 PM
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  10. Massey

    Massey TrainBoard Member

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    To me it read OZ-OFF-OZ... but then again I ma dyslexic! I for a minute got all excited that I was going to see the Yellow Brick Road... Or am I just hearing Elton John in my head?
     
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  11. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    I must have gotten them confused with the Easy-Off oven cleaner. Do you think?

    Funny Massey, to funny.:D:p:ROFLMAO::LOL:
     
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  12. Doug Gosha

    Doug Gosha TrainBoard Member

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    "M" on Chubbily's forehead for "Mischief Maker". I would say a good 80% of cats have that. Actually, they probably all do. It's just that you can't see it on some, like black cats. :D

    Doug
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2021 at 9:49 PM
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  13. Shortround

    Shortround TrainBoard Member

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    Ha ha ha! I got to know DC wiring by working on cars. American, Japanize or European. The OZ-OFF-OZ caught my eye. Some European and one American cars came with the frame and body not as the negative but, as the positive side of the circuits. Try and deal with that one.o_Oo_O
    When DCC is discussed they all mention letters and names I have no meanings for.
    And I built giant Waukesha Engines and there wiring is ALL black. Fun.:confused:
     
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  14. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    I've heard about the positive versus negative car frame. You'll find in some cars where they will use the negative in a reverse role with the positive. That will throw you.

    Then there's the situation where if you lengthen a wire all of a sudden the computer doesn't know what to do with it.

    Aiiyiiyii !!!
     
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  15. Doug Gosha

    Doug Gosha TrainBoard Member

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    The 1950 Ford pickup we had when I was a teen was positive ground and 6 volt. You had to be careful if you ever had to jump it or use it to jump another vehicle.

    Later, they sold conversion kits to change those to 12 volt negative ground. I don't think my dad ever did that, however, because it seemed like it always had a battery with just 3 caps.

    And, in some situations with computers, if the wiring gets too long, them bits get all scrambled and the computer does too. :D There are safeguards to prevent that, however, like check digits and such.

    Doug
     
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  16. Doug Gosha

    Doug Gosha TrainBoard Member

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    Hehe,"Oh, THAT black wire? That's the OTHER positive wire. Kind of like "..my other brother Darryl."

    :D

    Doug
     
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  17. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Start talking DCC and I'm sure I'm retarded. They use words that for a long time had only one application and most of us had a hard enough time remembering what they stood for. Now! Aiiyiiyii.:confused::confused::confused:

    Oh by the way in household wiring the black wire is the hot wire. Not that the rest aren't. I don't suggest you grab one in one hand the other wire in the other hand. Your heart isn't going to like it. Don't ask me how I know. Uunnhh !!:mad::mad::mad:

    Spent the day here instead of in the train room. Got to stop this addictive behavior. I know I'll switch addictions. :whistle::whistle::whistle:

    :cautious::sick::oops::X3:
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2021 at 3:17 AM
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  18. BarstowRick

    BarstowRick TrainBoard Supporter

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    Yes, it does. He is that.:sick::confused::D
     
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  19. Massey

    Massey TrainBoard Member

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    Positive ground was a thing in the early days of automobiles . It has the unfortunate effect of causing rust, actually attracting rust due to water and more so salt water having a negative ionic charge... and since opposites attract...
     
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