You got me thinking so did just did a quick experiment with my 6 axled FVM loco. My 2% grade consists of an ess turn followed by a 180 degree reverse followed by another ess. To date, I've had no problems pulling up to 24 Kato coalporters up my grade using any of my Kato AC4400s. Using my FVM 6 axle loco is another story. I was able to haul 23 of the same coalporter cars with moderate slippage. 24 was a no go. I am having problems with this particular FVM loco on all superelevated curves. It appears the trucks fit a bit tighter in the frame thereby prohibiting the trucks from floating and sitting flat on the track unless the track is absolutely flat. I noted one or more of the axles will lift up a bit on anything less than absolutely flat. Could this be the cause of your loss of traction?? Just thinking out of the box Brian ps. Abrading your track heads with sand paper is eventually going to cause electrical pickup problems by creating microscopic pits where "gunk" will collect. Stick with alcahol or other non abrasive methods to clean your track. IMHO
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...It does seem to stall out at the same spot. Maybe I have a 'bump in the road' there. I will have to lean over the layout and check the track in that area. Good possibilty...thnxs yea...sandpaper on rails makes me flinch too :-(
I've had a similar experience with loss of tractive effort after repeated running..... but lets get some more data.. Are the wheels on this locomotive chemically blackened or not? Is this actually 'somebody elses' mechanism under the hood, like Intermountain = Atlas? Spookshow's page doesn't have a good shot of the trucks. I'm wondering if it is so close to a Kato or Atlas that it's likely built out of the same factory.
Randy, The FVM mech is much like the early Kato Dash 9 mech. Absolutely nothing fancy. And once broken in, they sound and run like a good Kato, just slower.
I've had this phenomenon happen repeatedly with some chemically blackened wheelsets, that's what I'm digging for. If they've 'set' for a few days, they seem to oxidize up a bit. As they are run, and polish the treads back up, they slicken up significantly and start to loose tractive effort. Let them sit for a few days and you can repeat it again. First time I saw it I was baffled. I've had it happen on original Life-Like production, only whatever oxidizes on the tread is not all that conductive. But it is rough enough it increases TE. As the blackening has worn off my Atlas production like the SD24, tractive effort dropped to the point where I took some rather drastic measures, but it was exactly as described here; it made several laps and suddenly couldn't make it any more, would just sit on the hill and spin. That episode and trying to fix it was the start of my operating dynamometer car and all means of measuring tractive coefficients to try to figure out what in the devil was happening. Only with some kind of on-board measurement system could you determine if TE was falling or if train drag was increasing or what was going on. All wheels are not created equal. I sure was able to prove that, and have documented coefficients for all my power. I was astounded just how much variance could be attributed to wheel material. But watching it change is a whole different animal too.
Would putting metal wheels from FVM or the like on the rolling stock help reduce the "gunk" that plastic wheels leave on the rails? I personally like metal wheels for the sound and the cars seem to roll more easily.
mtrainman, Are you running your train in circles up the grade 7-8 times without stopping? Or are you ever stopping in between runs? You could do a simple experiment to confirm or eliminate any heat issue in the mix (heat of motor, wheels, etc.) Compare 7-8 runs in a row to 7-8 runs where you stop and wait for the engines to cool down in between (say 10 mins).
There is no oil in alchohol. If you get an oily residue after cleaning rails, it's from something that was there before you started cleaning.
???!!! As already stated, no. Either your alcohol supply is contaminated, or the cleaning method employed is not completely accomplishing the desired task.
Let me catch up... There is no chemically blackening on the locomotive wheels. The cars are a mix of plastic wheels on some...metal on the others. The 7-8 laps are continuious. I feel no 'heat' from the locomotive. I run trains for hours while in there working at the workbemch. Alcohol has no oils in it...been using it for years (on the rails) LOL ;-) Someone had asked earlier....yes I used No Ox on the rails months ago. It does seem to to help reduce 'gunk' on the rails Plan for today: Check the wheel gauge on the locomotive...again Check the track gauge again. Check the levelness of the track itself...dont want no speed bumps or ski jumps ;-) Check each car for rolling resistance. Will clean the locomotive wheels and all the cars wheels. Retest if the stalling problem returns after a few laps. Stay tuned
This is turning into quite an adventure! Almost good enough to use as the script for an old time radio mystery show. Better call in Johnny Dollar or Richard Diamond, to investigate! Ha ha.
While rubbing alcohol is at least 70% alcohol and the other listed ingredient is water there are other ingredients. See Below: In the United States, rubbing alcohol made using ethanol must conform to Formula 23-H, which specifies it consists of 100 parts by volume of ethyl alcohol, 8 parts by volume of acetone (MSDS sheet) and 1.5 parts by volume of methyl isobutyl ketone (MSDS sheet). The remainder of the composition includes water and denaturants and may include colorants and perfume oils. Rubbing alcohol made using isopropanol is regulated to contains at least 355 mg of sucrose octaacetate (MSDS sheet) and 1.40 mg of denatonium benzoate (MSDS sheet) per 100 ml volume. Isopropyl rubbing alcohol also contains water, stabilizer and may contain colorants. Thus rubbing alcohol can possibly have other agents, including oils that can cause problems. Solvent alcohol is a better bet and cheaper for the amount plus readily available at your local chain store paint department.
I've used both denatured and isopropyl alcohols for years on track, and more. Never had a residue issue. If there is anything which might be left behind, I certainly have never encountered it.
Bullfrog helped my traction problem with a Mikado. When I tried it on a Bachmann diesel I had no conductivity so had to remove it. Might be worth a try.
Yes it should probably be said that when we say alcohol we mean 90% isopropyl. With that said... it is a perfectly fine track cleaner.
A longshot, but maybe there's excess lubrication on the loco's axles/gears, and that lays down a deposit of oil with each go round which eventually causes traction loss. Otherwise you'd have to test the loco pulling power. When I worked reviewing locos for a hobby mag they had a test system which put the loco on a short piece of level powered track, fastening a thread to the loco coupler, looping the thread over a pulley to hang straight down off the end of the track section, and tied it to a weight which sat on a scale calibrated with tare weight of the weight, so the start reading was zero. Then apply power to the loco and see what the negative reading was in ounces. You rev the loco up to full speed (12 volts) and see its maximum pull. What you would do here is run the FSM gevo on the test bed, then run a Kato. Take those numbers and divide each by the weight of the locos and compare the percentages, and you'll find out if one is stronger than the other. The "speed bump" theory is interesting, but my experience with them on particular locos is they stall first time, every time, not after x laps.
Yes, I have tried several different brands of Alcohol and yes it does leave a residue. I learned this almost 40 years ago with HO slot car track, the more you cleaned the track the worse it got, it made the surface very slippery. I also tried 91% made by Lilly and it was used right after opening and it still made the surface slippery.
