Dummy couplers? So... a switcher, that doesn't switch. I was talking with a guy at MP, he runs the store in Farmingdale (sorry, I can't remember his name). I was asking him why didn't MP use the MTL coupler, as I'd heard was imminent? He said MTL wanted to charge them retail, for the couplers. If thats the case, I can see why a Bachmann and any other vendor would use dummies or rapidos and wouldn't build them to easily accept a MTL swapout (ala the HHP8, I'm fighting).
I would chip in a little extra. I would pay a little extra for them to raise another sail to get it here sooner. Im just sayin... :tb-wink:
Its ok, they fall into the Rail Transportation category for customs which means they are critical to the success of our country. I have confidence the govt will do what is necessary to get them here safely. Oh, we're talking about the MODEL trains. :-x
Why not? I would pay those few dollars extra for MTL couplers that I do not have to install by myself. I bought Con-Cor heavyweights with MTL trucks & couplers already installed: it saved me a lot of irritation and frustration.
Thieu I've been sitting here for 20 minutes and can't put my thoughts together on this. I wish there was a magnetic knuckle coupler standard. In the absence thereof, and considering the rapidos apparent dominance in European and Japanese modeling, I can see why a vendor would make things difficult to convert, if they can't negotiate a deal to use a knuckle coupler at a price that made sence to them. Sorry to hijack the thread, it ties into my observation that a switcher, that won't easily switch, is most likely out of the question. Beyond that, I need to join a club, because I can't express myself well enough... Marty
I don't really understand what you mean? You understand that a manufacturer makes it difficult to convert their engines to MTL couplers, but you also think that a switcher that is unable to switch, is out of the question. I think that a manufacturer who does all the efforts to produce a complete product, will sell better than a mfg who produces half a product. I do not want engines and cars with rapido's: I want factory installed working knuckle couplers. It doesn't interest me whether they are MTL, Accumate or McHenry or whatsoever. The European mfg's have the rapido, but in HO they produce a variety of couplers. That makes it sometimes difficult to combine brands. Very frustrating. Luckily, they also comply to NEM norms for the coupler shafts: that makes it rather easy to convert the couplers.
I don't think anybody is going to believe me until they put their mitts on one, but from my experience, there are few locomotives that have LESS ROOM for a 'normal' coupler box than a 44-tonner. I don't think Bachmann was being cheap, as much as they had the decision to try to design another coupler entirely, or move the trucks back toward the fuel tank to clear. Considering how modelers will beat a manufacturer up (and well in advance of physical release) that's a heck of a decision to have to make. Wrong wheelbase, dummy couplers, hang couplers out airborne, or design a new coupler? I mean, look at what Atlas had to do with the Shay. Only this is much, much worse for the lack of space. You know how Kato gets beat up for the coupling distance between A's & B's as well as IM? Yup. There just isn't an 'easy' solution. My favorite 'short box' coupler is the one that MT puts on their passenger truck. For the life of me, I don't understand why that coupler isn't available separately. If there IS anything that will fit, that's it. That's what I put on my 44-tonner, it works, it still looks big, and it is jam-packed tight into the trucks that I left 'short wheelbase'. IF you were willing to let that box 'hang out there' a bit more rather than being flush with the frame, it should do it. N REALLY needs a decent ultra-short box coupler. Maybe this will make it happen. If there is a Z box that short, somebody, anybody, let me know, I'd buy a bucket of them. I had to resort to a dummy on the front of my Climax kit, or hang the Z box out in thin air more or less like Atlas did.
As I said, it hasn't stopped every other manufacturer from using working knuckle couplers, IM and several others use MTL couplers. Have we seen yet how Bachmann has actually mounted the couplers on their 44 tonner? The McHenry coupler with all the moving parts on the knuckle itself with a T-shank of various lengths would be the answer. They've just got to make them. I'd love a bigger variety of MTL Z scale couplers too.
Quote: "As I said, it hasn't stopped every other manufacturer from using working knuckle couplers, IM and several others use MTL couplers." True, but quite a few have complained about the price of the locomotive already. As if a small switcher is easier to build, and should be cheaper. Bachmann has always been sensitive to the price point. They could get a motor for a ten wheeler. But not at the price they want for the final product. Adding MT couplers could probably cost enough to kill the deal for a number of people. At least from their point of view. Frank
99% of the time as things get smaller (and maintain the same quality as their larger counterparts), things get more expensive, not cheaper. Material costs are not that large of a factor, it's tooling and quality control.
This is how we could run them if they don't work, no problems with the dummy couplers either.:tb-biggrin: I can't believe using MTL couplers on a loco would add more to the purchase price than if I bought them myself and installed them afterwards, most modelers would do this anyway so the manufacturers who shy away from working knuckle couplers, be they MTL, Accumate or McHenry are catering to a shrinking minority.
MT couplers will always add more than the value of the coupler by itself to the price of a loco. MT is their own distributor. Even if the couplers were sold to Bachmann at wholesale of 50% of retail, which is better than the stores get, Bachmann still needs to add in their acceptable margins, which include markup from the manufacturing plant which must buy the part from MT. Then sell the finished product to Bachmann proper, then to the distributor and then mark up to the dealer. Too keep it simple, assume 100% mark up each time so a Coupler that costs them $2.50 to put on the model, could add $20 to the final retail price of the loco in a worst case scenario. Now take the reseller discounts, between 25-35 percent off retail for the high volume mail order places and you are looking at adding about $12-15 to the final price. Much more than the $5 the couplers would have cost you to buy. Business is run by percentages and everybody in the chain needs their cut to make money.
Ok, I agree with the maths and I guess that this is why Athearn are going with their own McHenrys instead of Accumates, but I still maintain my point that every other US manufacturer, with the exception of MP who still live in the 70's, now have working knuckle couplers of some type whether their own or third party ones as standard issue. If they can do it why can't Bachmann, they do it in HO and On30.
