Just put my new Bachmann Spectrum B&M 2-8-0 in service ... it is FANTASTIC! It out pulls a pair of double-headed Kato Mikes, even with tire mods installed. The Consol takes 34 assorted freight cars up 2% around 180 degrees of 24 inch radius without even having the Johnson bar all the way to the bulkhead! Those Mikes are pouring max steam into their chests with the same train on the same grade and they still lose headway, and both Firemen are working their butts off just keeping steam up!! The Consol has some of the finest details yet found on affordable N-Scale steam. Bachmann certainly raised the bar with this locomotive, sure hope the other manufacturers will accept the challange. Furthermore, Bachmann has produced a fine example of B&M's K-Class delivered by Schenectady between 1905 and 1908. [ 27. September 2002, 00:43: Message edited by: Hank Coolidge ]
Wished I'd kept the email I received back from Bachmann, Hank; it was precious. I told them we in N scale would have to stop laughing at them now, that what they had done was excellent and set new standards. The email I received back said those in the company were very grateful for the email and had posted it in their factory for the workers to see. Why not send them an email and tell them how much you like your new Connie.
That's a very interesting statement you have made in the quote Hank and I'm glad you're happy with your Bachmann Consolodation 2-8-0. I'm happy with both of mine also. HOWEVER, there must be something drastically wrong with your two Mikados. I have seven Kato Mikados and have worked on detailing three others for other modelers and every one of them, by itself with traction tires installed, will out pull each of the four Bachmann Consolodations we all bought. From my own experience, any Kato N scale Mikado, with tractions tires installed, that will not pull at least 50 MT box cars, on a straight flat track, has something the matter with it. Any of my Mikados, with traction tires installed, will pull 50 MT box cars and 17 Rivarossi heavy weight passenger cars at the same time, at half power on an MRC Control Master 20 Walkaround Transformer. It is possible one of the Mikados has something wrong with it and that resulted in a bad MUing of the two engines, thusly making one Mikado pull the slower engine as well as all the load. Try running the two Mikados around your track about a foot apart and see if one runs better than the other. If both run the same and won't outpull a single Consolodation when MUed together, then maybe you should send your Mikados to the LLW!
Just picked up a two new release BMANN consols and am very pleased with them. Not so sure they out pull the Katos though, but never the less, a very good addition to the Steam roster. Jeff Shriver
I have three of the 2-8-0's (look great in B&M and MEC liveries) and they all perform like Hank's. Unfortunately, they WILL run circles around my KATO Mikado, also just like Hank's. 8 cars on a 3% grade is all the Mikado will handle. I have a Japanese prototype Mike, also by KATO, which does much better. I double head my KATO Mike with a brass 2-10-2 and don't get the hauling capacity of one of the 2-8-0's.
ABSNUT.... does your Kato Mikado have traction tires, and as far as brass engines go I've never found that many N scale ones that were really good pullers. One of my Mikados won the Tracction Pull contest at a NMRA meet in Salmon Arm B.C., a few years ago. It outpulled a lot of the HO steamers by lifting 630 grams off the floor, but I cheated. I mounted an extra set of traction tires on the front drivers of the Mikado. Traction tires are now banned in this contest. I suspect you chaps with the bad running Mikados have been removing the drawbar from the engine and for some reason have removed the front wheels on the tender and in putting them back on, have installed the drawbar prongs back into on the tender wheel pickups in the wrong position. Did you buy your Mikado used? Our group has been running eleven Mikados and none have the problem that yours does. One of the four Consolodations our group bought had to be sent back to the retail shop because it had a tight motor bushing and would barely crawl under full power. That's what burns motors out and that's bad quality control. It was replaced by the shop and the replacement ran fine. I have also noticed that the Consoldation tends to spin its drivers on some curves when it is backing up, my minimun radius curve is 12 3/4 " in my switchyard. Do you suppose that we got the only good Mikados that Kato produced? I would suspect that a lot of the used Consolodations for sale on ebay are like the one we returned. I would not buy a used one on ebay. If you're not happy with your Mikado, send it back to Kato and ask them to find out what's wrong with it, or sell it to me real cheap and I will fix it.
Please understand that I am very happy with my two Kato Mikes. However, my observations are that neither Mike, alone, can handle the load that I described above without slipping. Both Mikes, double-headed, will handle the load, but as one slips, the other picks up the load until the slipping loco re-gains traction. Both Mikes have the tire mod installed. On the other hand, the Bachmann Consol does not slip anywhere around the 2% grade, 180 curve, it merely slows until the MRC 2800 powerpack transitions to pulsed power, then pulls its little heart out.
Mike, there certainly is something wrong with your two Mikados. I'd have someone that knows these engines well, check them out for you. Maybe try running someone elses Mikados on your layout and see what happens with them. The problem might possibly be worn out traction tires, but I would strongly suspect that on the engine that slips badly, someone took the front trucks of the tender off and put them back on backwards, that will lift the Mikado traction tires off the track. As I said before, someone might also have installed the prongs of the drawbar wrongly on the front tender wheel pickups. That will mess up the running of the Mikado also. If you were in Canada, I'd say send them to me (THE LLW) and I'll look at them for you, no charge. In the US maybe send them to Charlie
The Bach. also is running TWO sets of traction tires (#3 & #4 axles, at least on mine there is). The same on my MDC's also.
SQUIRRELKINNS...That is really interesting! All of our four Spectrum Consoldations only have traction tires on the #3 axle. Where did you get that engine? Did you get it used? I'll bet it'll pull a zillion cars. Sneak it into a traction pull contest. When I was testing the Mikado that I mounted four traction tires on before I took it to the traction pull I entered it in and won, it was pulling 51 MT box cars and 27 heavyweight and smoothside passenger cars, still at only half trottle and would have pulled more, but the MT couplers couldn't handle the load and the train always broke apart on the first big curve. In the pull it lifted 630 grams off the floor. It was interesting to note that the couplers that always broke apart during the testing, were the truck mounted couplers on the heavyweights, not the body mounted ones on the smoothides. or the truck mounted ones on the boxcars. The passenger cars were behind the boxcars and I guess those long 85 ft. passenger cars were stressing the #1129 MT truck mounted couplers on the curve. No problems with a 10 car passenger train however.
The Kato 2-8-2 drivers are a drop in replacement for the stock Bachmann drivers. If you want to pay the extra for see through spoke drivers this conversion really looks great. Make sure Kato sends you the driver set from the new release 2-8-2, they have better pickup than the older run.
All the Bachmann Colsolodation drivers are connected to the rods and only the center two drivers are gear driven. All the Kato Mikado drivers are gear driven and only the center two sets are rod connected. That is one of the major differences between these two engines. I still think that four gear driven drivers will outpull two drivers every time. Questions for daylight 99. Have you actually changed out the Bachmann driver set for a Kato set on one of these Bachmann Consolodations? Did the gears on the two center Kato drivers mesh satisfactorily with the motor drive gears on the Bachmann? How difficult was it drilling the #1 and #4 Kato drivers to accept the rod pins of the Bachmann rods. Wouldn't this be a necessary step as the Kato drivers in the #1 and #4 position would not turn unless they were connected to the Bachmann rods. I certainly agree that the see through spokes on the Kato drivers would look better than the simulated spokes on the solid wheel of the Bachmann drivers, but this is not an easy changeover for the average modeler, if in fact the Kato drivers do drop into the Bachmann frame slots. Post a picture of the engine that was changed over if you have done this, there are a lot of modelers who would like to see what it looks like. If you have successfully done this, you certainly have my for being a very inovative kitbasher.
I remember now that I had to pickup two sets of drivers so you can have the extra set of wheels without a gear on the axle. The Kato set drops right in and the gears mesh perfect, it looks like Bachmann took the Kato 2-8-2 apart and copied the drive right down to the gear size. I had no problem attaching the rod pins, I just drilled out the holes and pressed them in. This is an expensive conversion but the end result is worth it, at least I think so.
Quite correct Daylight, I forgot that the front set of Kato drivers doesn't have a gear, it is driven by the rods. On the Mikado, drivers 1 and 3 are the rod connected ones and 2, 3, and 4 are gear driven, giving the Mikado only one more gear driven driver set than the 2-8-0. So as you say, you would need to buy two sets of Kato drivers to do this conversion. Expensive YES! Did you have to drill out all four Mikado driver sets to accomodate the Bachmann rod pins, or does the Bachmann rod pin fit in the same spot on the Mikado drivers in Mikado driver set #1 and #3? If so then we would only have to drill out two sets of Mikado drivers. this is giving me a headache now! Anyway, congratulations on the Kitbash conversion, now how about a picture to convince the weak of heart kitbashers.
Something else to consider before going to the expense of changing out the Bachmann drivers for Kato Mikado drivers with see through spokes, is the following. You will not be able to have Kato traction tires on that engine unless you wish to put a set of Mikado drivers on the Bachmannin engine in position #2 or # 3 that have the wrong size weight on the driver, because the Kato Mikado driver that is milled for a traction tire has a gear on its axle. You can only put that Kato Mikado driver in position #2 or #3 on the Bachmann engine. Its' position on the Kato Mikado is the #4 position and the driver in that position has a smaller weight than the two center drivers. Perhaps the look of see through drivers is more moticable than the size of the weights on the drivers. So you win something and you lose something.
My Kato Mikados and Bachmann Consolidations both run great. I use the theory that if it isn't broke...don't fix it. My eyes are such that I can't see thru the drivers anyway.
