I had a chance yesterday to run mine at length and the results aren't pretty. The pilot wheels on my sample have just enough pressure on them to ever so slightly lift the front drive wheels and make the locomotiver stall at any irregularity in the track. By stall, I don't mean that it loses electrical contact, but rather that it will just sit there with wheels turning. I also found that mine will not pass through an atlas code 55 no. 7 without the frog powered- which is not a big deal to me, just wanted to pass it along. I worked with trying to tweak the arm that attaches the pilot wheels to the locomotive but didn't get anywhere with that. I then removed the cowcatcher/ pilot all together and the thing ran beautifully. What I found was that the pilot is "warped", so to speak. One side sits lower that the other. When one looks at the front of the locomotive, the pilot beam is not parallel with the tops of the rails or the rest of the locomotive. I was able to straighten the pilot by giving it a gentle twist while in a small vise that I have. As we speak I have the pilot back on and the little steamer is running well, but I have to re-work the pilot support amrs that run from the boiler to the pilot because they will no longer line up with the holes in the pilot. Fun fact: If you need to remove those support arms, Tamiya liguid cement will loosen the glue bond on the underside of the pilot. Oh well, I'm still working at it. It looks like this will be a problem with some of these. I hope people wont think that I'm bashing this locomotive- I'm not. I think it looks great and runs great, but there will be a few duds out there. I think this is a hard product to make in N scale, but one that I am happy to see. I know I could send this to Atlas and let them deal with it, or that the retailer I bought it from would swap it out for me...but I like to tinker.
On the one I have that doesn't run so well, the pilot arm was bent such that the pilot was sitting way too low (virtually touching the rails). Bending it upwards a bit took care of that problem. It's still running a bit herky-jerky, but it's not crashing into the rails and stopping at track joins anymore. I also noticed that it runs a bit slower than my "good one", so something must be binding someplace. Also, if I hold on to the tender and give it some throttle I can see a noticeable vertical (up and down) buck as the drivers turn that my good one does not exhibit. Word of warning - the detailing is extremely fragile (particularly the steam whistle and the handrail mounts). So far I've managed to break them all off :-( -Mark
While I have extreme flexibility with my pilot wheels I did not experience any problems with them lifting the drivers any. The small philips head screw between the cylinders could be an issue in restricting upward movement of the pilot truck if it is not set in all the way. In fact it probably should be slightly counter sunk just to avoid that and offer some more upward movement range. One other factor that prevents any further upward movement is the leading edge of the frame pieces right where the pilot truck arm crosses. A slight bevel at this point would also give more vertical freedom. While I did not find a warp issue with the pilots I did find on one that the pilot had a slight downward tilt that I simply corrected by some gentle pressure upward on the pilot while still mounted on the loco. That problem was also noted in an earlier post, I believe here, with another persons loco. That did cause a slight warpage of the pilot braces and I will also have to redrill and reset mine. So the pilot issue may be a sporatic thing rather than the norm at this time. The other was okay. I rechecked both of mine to see if there was any side to side warp and found both to be completely level. The only issue I had as stated earlier was with the Atlas rerailers which I have occasionally had with other locos with low pilots. It may be possible also to slightly sand down the pilot base on the top for a thinner profile at the mounting point in effect raising the pilot some. I did take a look at a MT 1044 pilot conversion but initially found the base too short and the ride too low. When I get around to digging out some of my Bmann 4-4-0s that I mounted the MT pilot conversion on maybe I figure out which conversion I adapted for them and be able to use this on the Atlas. If I set around and wait for MT to do something it may be never or literally years away. I've also been looking at a number of photos and find that quite a few had a pocket in or just below the pilot beam where the drawbar mounted. And in some cases when the Janney coupler came into use on some that was the mounting point. So I may just use some styrene square stock and mount a dummy coupler that will work with the MTs for double heading use instead of going throught the pilot replacement issue since my locos will be in the period after the knuckle couplers became manditory. Overall though it appears at this point that a little minor tweaking here and there, which will be in the pilot area, and adding a slight bit of weight inside the cab plus a few additions of some detail parts will have these ready for service so thanks Atlas. Then I will retire some of my older Bmann 4-4-0s. What I plan to do is remove the tender motor on two and install fine flexible wires to the contacts making them into auxillary tenders and then permanently connecting them and the wires to the two 4-6-0 tenders that were kitbashed from the Bmanns. At that point I will have addressed the limited electrical pick-up footprint for the Bmann bashes. I believe that I have at least one Bmann 4-4-0 left that will also get the auxillary tender treatment. If all works out I will end up with a nice small roster of small elderly steam and maybe edge just a little closer to an all steam roster again. The unused Bmann 4-4-0 locos sans tenders will get stripped of usable parts and windows boarded up and then shoved off on a side track in the weeds. But enough messing with these locos for now. I have a bunch of cabooses that need my attention for now.
Mark, take a good hard look at the crosshead guides. There's quite a bit of flash on mine, surprisingly so. If the crosshead is binding in the guides that might be reason for the driver bucking. there's not THAT many moving parts on the running gear here to hang.
Well... I have mine tracking properly and looking good, but now I have other issues. While giving the little guy a chance to run for an hour or so it has developed a loud cruchy sound when running. Close inspection when running slow reveals it stalls just for a split second now and then, and I can hear the sound of gear teeth almost meshing, but not quite. This really may have been all or part of the problem I've been chasing all along. I have it back in the box and a trip to Atlas is probably in its future. I have tinkered around with it, but have no desire to take apart the mechanism. On the plus side I have been lucky enough to have not broken any details on this adventure, but it would be extremely easy to do. I think my sample is just a lemon. It goes that way sometimes.
With the tiny gears exposed in three slots on the bottom plate I can see these easily getting debris in them and causing a big headache if that is the problem. I can't say if these are metal or plastic gears but they look to be black plastic at first glance. I abhor anything that has any part of the gear train exposed but it is almost a fact of life with all my different brands of steam and some diesel. And Mark I hear you. I already surmised that these would be as delicate as the Shays and I have nubs where the whistle and pops used to be on the steam dome as I noted in Saturdays post. Working on these is going to be akin to performing brain surgery on a Fruit Fly.
Yes, the gears are plastic - I spent a while adjusting the crosshead guides and the cylindar crossmember (all of which were out of whack to some degree). I did note some flash on the crosshead guides, but it didn't look like it was anyplace that was going to be interfering with the moving parts. I haven't put it all back together yet, so I don't know if that improved things or not. But I will say, throw in the pilot and the whole assembly is pretty darned flimsy, and any amount of out-of-whackitude is going to cause problems. Just guessing, but I bet Atlas sees a lot of returns on these. The bell is broken off now, and that snaky gold thing-a-ma-doohickus is in two pieces. Yeesh, anybody looking for a project loco? -Mark
Atlas saw a lot of returns for repairs on the Shays due to thier delicate nature which may be why they didn't run a three truck version and any later releases of the 2 truck version haven't happened as of yet and I agree that there probably will be a number of returns just due to the tiny delicate nature of the parts. This probably highlights the issue of getting things to scale in N scale like the valve gear. The Bmann version is not to scale but it is as a consequence more robust and can take the pressure of those large fingers we have later in life. It is going to be a real challenge for me, and I have the micro tools, just to add the details I want without breaking something else even with a foam cradle.
Still bucking and binding after reassembly. I guess next I'll try running it around in circles for a few days and see if breaking things in helps any. -Mark
I'm wondering what Atlas may have done differently with the second run of these. The first run Disney version put out by Lowell Smith runs awesome and I haven't seen any of these issues with mine. From the pictures you've posted, it has the exact same mechanism and there is nothing noticeably different with it aside from shell details. Mine has no flash on the crossheads or any of the plastic running gear and I don't see the out of whackness with mine. The only issue I've run into with it is the usual pickup problems associated with small steam from their small footprints.
I have the Disney loco and it runs fine. Atlas loco is on the way. The Disney loco had the bottom plate glued at the front. This is where the pilot attaches and also holds the front driver tightly in place. You guys may want to look there for a problem. Mark, How much for it?
Sorry, I don't want the takeaway here to be that I think these are junk locos. I bought two of them and one runs perfectly while the other one doesn't. And the one that doesn't run perfectly doesn't run all that bad - just not as good as the first one. -Mark
The bottom plate on these are press/clip fit at the front and back. They seem fine, and I haven't noticed any problems with the pilot truck on mine (as floppy as they are, it's hard to imagine them having any impact on the drivers or anything else). I'm hoping that whatever it is that's causing the slight bind in mine will eventually clear up after some extensive run-time. So, still playing Dr Frankenstein with this one, but I'll let you know -Mark
I see the clips that hold the bottom plate on, but they hit the front with ACC at the factory on mine. I figured the clips weren't very tight and this was the "fix". I'm not sure if that is a problem source or not, just thought I'd mention it. Few pics: https://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/November142012
The bottom plate seems to clip into place quite firmly on mine. One issue I've noticed is that if the little plastic hook that extends off the end (that the pilot truck hooks on) isn't bent "just so", the pilot truck has a tendancy to fall off when handling the model. However, it's simple enough to remove the bottom plate and bend the hook back where it should be. -Mark
Word of caution, while these loco's run great as assembled from Atlas but don't buy an undec. There is much too much glue used in assembly. Taking mine apart I have broken 2 of the 4 stanchions, all of the piping details, and nicked up the steam dome caps. Either the undecs were assembled with the paint still soft or they glued everything in place. It's now a collection of broken parts. This wasn't disecting the loco for anything more than getting it ready for paint. Also, the reason for the dim headlights, the entire headlight is molded in clear plastic then they paint everything that shouldn't have light coming out. The light is supposed to be transmitted through a 1mm square hole into the block of plastic, then reflected forward. I also have a feeling the lights are purposely dimmed more than normal so that there is no glowing of the entire assembly.
Tony, as noted previously I've broken all the detail parts off the undec I've been playing around with. You're saying that the details on the painted/lettered ones aren't quite so fragile? Thanks, -Mark
Speaking of fragile detailing, does the Atlas website actually show one with its whistle missing? Or is that a "road specific" detail? -Mark
With the recent comment about the Disney version of this loco I decided to take a look for myself having not seen it before. As said previously the only thing I could spot, besides the paint job, was the fact that the roof had a top hatch that mine do not. Same shallow relief spokes etc. etc. Then the old brain cells clicked once or twice late last night and I got to thinking about the inconsistant results being found by folks including myself at various points in the distribution system. Are we dealing with several assembly points for this loco versus one. Out of a thousand locos (don't really know the production numbers just a guess) there will always be a couple that just don't perform as well or have some issue. I have tested only one of my two but have visually inspected both. I have only found one problem with one of the slight downward cant of the pilot that is not present in the other. That very well may have been a packaging issue although an examination of the packaging this AM does not reveal anything that could have caused that and the locos have very well designed packaging that prevents any movement at all yet allows ample space for the long pilot. Shaking the box produces no movement so the pilot dip and warpage has to be handling at the assembly/manufacturing points or point. Also another observation this AM concerns the cab. I noticed that the loco that had the slightly downward bent pilot also appears to have a slight forward tilt of the cab while the other doesn't. I saw this before when looking at several pictures prior to ordering mine that one of the locos had a slightly canted forward cab that I did not see on the other loco photos of different roads. I've yet to see any signs of flash remaining on either of mine with the valve gear. But others have reported it. So either we have some different assembly/manufacturing points, or a lack of quality control and lack of skill on the part of some of the personel at the factory(s). I know I would not be wanting to be sitting at a worktable peering at all these little valve gear hangers and cleaning flash. Yet any flash in the vertical and horizontal slots of this valve gear can cause enough of an issue to effect the giddy-up factor greatly and binding on one or both sides so it is a major area that needs care and quality control. The slotted guides for the valve gear consist of two pieces so if they are misalligned there can be another issue in binding. So far I have no issue with the loco bottom plate and it does not appear to be glued in place and from the part schematic it is clipped in front and rear by one tab at each end. It is amazing that for it's size that this loco has at least 97 parts and at least 50% of the parts are directly involved with the mechanical function of the engine sans tender and shell. So there is certainly a lot of area that needs carefull manufacturing and assembly. So later this AM I shall once again set up my test track and repeat all the tests except for the tractive effort on the 2nd one. My test track is a four track torture chamber with old recycled flex and sectional track, ancient switches with non powered frogs, rerailers, soldered track joints, and set up with two double track sections that I can speed match locos, one set of which contains two of the tight 7 and 5/8ths radius ancient switches. If it can run on my test track it can run almost anywhere. So I shall get a fresh cup of Java, don my long hooded robe, put on Rimiski Korsakov's Night on a Bald Mountain for background music and begin the torture, I mean testing. Stay tuned.
Well almost high noon and I'm back. Put that locomotive down Igor!! As stated in the previous post broke out and set up the torture, er test track, and broke out the 2nd 4-4-0. Repeated all the tests from Saturday with this one except for tractive effort on grade, but I did elevate the test track to the obscene 14.5% grade. Slow in initial start up but warmed up and improved as I slammed the throttle forward and reverse numerous times and ran it up and down the track on level grade. No issues no hiccups. Moved over to the infamous set of tracks with the 7 and 5/8ths R. switches. Unlike the first one this one did not like them much. Made it through a few times but the pilot truck derailed more often than not at the start of the switch. Don't see any difference between this one and the other in that area but there is a slight something. However really doesn't matter to me since the branchline won't have anything tighter than 9 and 3/4ths anyway. However I do still think that these can probably make it through something a little tighter. I decided to use a little LaBelle's Lubricant sparingly on the gears with this one and a very small drop on the valve gear. A couple of cycles of running and a further improvement of already good performance. These little gals are relatively quiet and it got even quieter. The loudest noise I was hearing was the wheels clicking over some rail joints. Same high speed potential with this one and after playing with this for almost an hour no excessive motor heat at all. Just very slightly warm to the touch. I still think the pilots are too low and just for kicks I broke out both MT coupler heigth gauges. Tender is right on. However when placed against the pilot the lowness became more apparent. Any attempt to rig any type of coupler to the pilot as it is will result in the coupler being too low. I did do one more thing. I got one of my Exacto wide chisel blades out and with the power off laid it on the track at the pilot. The blade just cleared both sides of the pilot evenly without lifting the loco at all. So again the pilot is clearing the tracks and evenly with this one also like the first one. No pilot dip or cab dip with this one. The 2nd one also does not like the Atlas rerailers either and I think it is the flange slots on the rerailer. On a couple I had previous deepened the flangeways there was no issue. So folks I have a 2 for 2 in the performance department as far as the running issues. I doggone near broke the danged whistle and pops off this one so for a certainty they will be replaced with the more sturdy versions in my parts box. As far as my running out and getting a 3rd one I'll wait and see what transpires. So far I have had a good run of luck in the general performance and quality department. I'm not going to push it. If Atlas does another run hopefully they will address the issues with the pilots and the issues others are finding with flash. I'm not sure what the whistle and pops are made out off but I suspect a very brittle plastic. Metal would be a more sturdy solution to these parts and being easily broken. I still think this is a potentially good product that just needs some attention to quality control at the factory. But this isn't the first time we have seen quality control issues at the overseas factories have we.
