I'm doing research for my long term model railroad and was wondering if someone here at TrainBoard might have some information that will help. My modeling subject is Southern Railways' Asheville Division between Salisbury, NC and Asheville, NC in 1904. I have gathered some historical information, but am still looking for operational information from this stretch of track. Does anybody have a source for some of the following information from between 1895 and 1905: - Names of major shippers/industries (I have found some of this but would like a more complete picture). - Typical freight train make up (both freight and types of cars). - Passenger and scheduled freight timetables as well as frequency of extras. - Locomotive numbers assigned to the division (I found system wide loco rosters from this period but they didn't state where the locos operated). - Dates when original WNCRR wooden bridges were replace with steel bridges. - Date when the High Fill trestles on the Southern Loops were replaced with earth fills (suspect this was sometime mid-20th century). - Date Oyama yard in Hickory, NC was built. Was it part of the WNCRR construction or was it built later? Some of the information I have learned already from various sources (including helpful people at the Railfan.net forums) includes the following: - List of stations and sidings as well as maps showing the route taken by the tracks. - Locos were mostly 2-8-0s, 4-6-0s, and similar small breeds. - Old Fort (base of Southern Loops) had the Union Tanning Company open in 1904 that was a major shipper. - A resort hotel at Round Knob (in the middle of the loops where Andrew's Geyser is located) burned down in 1903. - Lumber from the WNC mountains (not sure if logs or milled wood) was a significant portion of rail traffic. - Hickory Furniture Company was founded in 1901 in Hickory, NC. - Wallace Herbarium was a major business in Statesville, NC. - Statesville industry was mostly herbs, tobacco, and liquor. I am planning to take a few liberties with historical information (such as having the resort hotel at Round Knob intact at the same time as Union Tanning Company is operating). But I would like to keep the operation of the layout somewhat close to the activity this division saw at the turn of the 20th century. Any information that can help develop a better picture is greatly appreciated! Mark Wilson
02 Feb 2006 Good morning Mark and others. I am Larry Childers in Mauldin, SC. Mauldin is located in upstate SC. I do have some photos (somewhere) of the Ashville, NC area about the time when the roundhouse tracks were being removed. These also include the old passenger station area and the Biltmore station area. These may help as some of the background structures were there in the time period you are asking about. Perhaps they will help. I will try and locate them and e-mail same. My layout is o scale hi-rail. Southern, Atlantic Coast Line and Seaboard Air Line are the prime railroads I model. Larry at Southern Coastline Railway System.
Hi Mark, Welcome to TrainBoard! I don't have any info on what you requested, as that is a little too old for me to help with. Looks like Larry ( SCRS ) has your answers! Harold
I have never seen any old photos of the Asheville area... I wish I could see photos of the old roundhouse in use!
7 Feb 06 Mark and Harold. Hopefully, I can locate those Ashville pictures before long. I will e-mail them to both of you when the albums are located. They were not where they are normally stored. We have been doing a lot of remodeling and as such most of my train photo albums were placed elsewhere. Larry
Thanks guys! Sorry about the late reply to your postings. I forgot to flag email notification of replies and haven't been able to check back regularly. The photos of the roundhouse and station areas would be GREATLY appreciated. A friend supplied some insurance maps from 1902 of several of the major towns (Statesville, Hickory, Marion, Newton, Old Fort, and Asheville) that I plan to include in the model. What a treasure trove of industrial information! I also discovered some things that had previously escaped my attention about track arrangements as well. Here is a summary of what I found: Statesville (industries served by a siding/freight platform) - 3 tracks through town, 4 in front of station - Station area: - Statesville Flour Mills: Siding behind depot. First industry on siding - J. K. Morrison and Sons Grocers and Produce: Second on siding after Statesville Flour Mills. - Statesville Box Company, General Cooper Shop, Lumber Yard, and Planing: Just off Statesville Flour Mills siding and to side and behind Flour Mills. - Standard Oil Company: Unloading platform beside mainline on station siding. - Coal and fertilizer sheds on opposite side of station than Standard Oil platform. - Opposite side of tracks from station: - J. A. Wise, Cooper Shop and Cotton Gin: - Statesville Furniture Company: - Lumber yard - Imperial Furniture Mfg Co: - Railroad Flour Mills - West end of town: - L. Ash Tobacco Factory: - J. C. Steele and Sons Brick Machinery Works: - East end of town: - Kincaid Furniture Company:Siding - R. V. Brawley Root & Herb Warehouse: Offline - H. Clark and Sons Tobacco Factory: Offline - Carolina Marble and Granite Co: Offline - Statesville Cotton Mills: Way northward into town but has siding nearby. - Siding heading north on west side of town: - Statesville Oil and Fertilizer Co: - Bloomfield Mfg Co Cotton Mill: Hickory - 4 tracks through town, merges into two in middle of town. Two of the tracks are narrow guage Carolina & Northwestern RR (C&NW) tracks that veer off northward to Lenior. - C&NW has siding behind freight station and track up to freight depot dock. - C&NW goes from single track into freight station to double track on west end of town veering northward. One Southern std guage siding crosses C&NW at this point. - Double track main passes beside Hutton & Bourbonnai Planing Mill. Tracks merge to single track just after Mill. Turntable on opposite side of tracks where double tracks merge into single track. - Industries served by C&NW: - Hickory Mfg Co: Sash doors, Blinds, and Building Materials. - Southern standard guage tracks parallel C&NW through town. - 2 tracks merge into single before leaving town. Siding heads northward from single track section. - Southern passenger station on opposite side of tracks from freight station and a little east. - Industries served by Southern: - Peidmont Wagon Co: Huge lumber customer. Siding does not cross C&NW. - Hutton & Bourbonnai Planing Mill and Box Co: siding crosses C&NW double track main to enter complex. I'm still working on compling information from the Marion, Newton, Old Fort, and Asheville. But these maps answer the question I had about industries served along the division Other information I found is that the wooden bridges and trestles were still in use in 1902. Steel bridges and earth fills had not been done yet. It also looks like the Asheville yard was much smaller than it is today, but I am still trying to confirm this. Now if I can just dig up a 1900-1905 employee timetable.... Mark Wilson
I traversed part of the line today... In fact, I took my first visit ever to Claremont! I caught 135 there.... As far as Statesville, was the Alexander RR present then?? Harold
Yes. I have some pictures of it from a trip last September. Unfortunately, it was closed when my wife and I stopped by. I would have had a lot of pictures of the Loops if I had loaded the film in the camera properly No. It was too early for the Alexander RR. The maps are from 1902 and the Alexander RR didn't form until 1945 (according to this link: http://www.ncrailways.net/companies/ARC.html). The maps show rails branching off in the right direction, but they are labeled as Southern Ry. Mark
Hey Mark, Don't feel bad about not seeing the station... the one time I went in, there was nothing to see! One small room set up as a "reception area"... nothing to see! In fact, I don't even know why it was open! Maybe there will be more to see once they open the "museum". I did catch a few neat trains last week in Old Fort. One was a work train, powered by a NS SD70/SD60M/SD60I combo. Another was # 166, powered by an SD70M-2, SD70M, D9-40CW set. The last was a grain train powered by 3 D8-40C's and as D9-40CW. Harold
Time for a research update! Here is some information on the Old Fort area as well as a sketch of the town/industry arrangement from 1918. - There were 5 tracks running through town in front of the tanning company, but this condensed down to 3 in front of the station and merged into single track main about 400' west of the station before making a 90 degree bend to head into the Loops. - Staging area for helper locomotive with a wye located just east of town (not seen in sketch) for turning the helpers. - Union Tanning Company was formed in 1904 and was pretty much the only industry in town until 1930 when it burned to the ground from a lightning strike on one of the sheds. - A resort hotel was built in the Southern Loops (Round Knob/Andrews Geyser area) in the 1880s. It burned down in 1903 from a fire started by locomotive cinders (it was built too close to the tracks) and was never rebuilt. Sketch of town area (click for full size): I've got a thread running in the Layout Design forum to help selectively compress this area into a module for the future layout.
12 MAY 2007 Mark Wilson (and all). Some time back I posted that I had some photos of the Ashville, NC Southern Railway areas. I still haven't found those, however I have come up with some photos of the Southern Yards and the Biltmore Station area. These may give you some ideas to model with on your layout. These are from 35 MM slides I recently scanned. I purchased an Epson Flatbed scanner V100 that really works scanning slides - four at a time. Slowly, but surely, I have scanned 52 boxes of slides - all more than 25 years old. From the Southern's Best Friend in Easley, SC to the Southern yards in Charleston. Some day, time permitng I will post some of the pictures. Larry @ SCRS
Mark: I have quite a few things on my website, SouthernRailfan.net that may help you Go to the documents page http://southern.railfan.net/paper/sr_paper.html 1912 list of stations and sidings - great info, but a large download 25 megs - information about each station (turntable, wye, telegraph, coal chute, or from car, water etc), and info about the track. Station floor plans - another large download Asheville timtable but after your time frame 1949 - still may be of some use Textile directory - great info on mills in the area Other documents that may be of help Mileage Operating Divisions ICC Valuation Reports Hope that these are of help to you. Tom
My how the time flies! I've been busy with getting the house sold, moving, and other projects besides railroading. Didn't realize how long it has been since I checked Trainboard. Larry, I would love to see the photos of the Southern Yards/Biltmore Station area you found. The yard in Asheville doesn't appear to have changed much from the time period I'm researching so photos from late 20th century will be helpful. Tom, I found your site in my initial searching of the web for all things Southern. :teeth: :shade: That 1912 listing of stations and sidings along with the 1910 locomotive roster, 1914 locomotive drawings, and Passenger/Business car diagrams have been a goldmine of information. Thank you VERY much for posting the information.
