Here's an Initail plane: #1 is now, #2 is a hypothetical Future expansion. Basic conceptual idea is a 2x4 and a 4x7 that enables continious operation; I used 22" raduis curves, No. 6 turnouts, and was able to squeeze it all in. whee! Conceptually, area starts with #1, the desert, and then we snake up into the high country for the purpose of mining. Quite possibly, there will be a town/something/spur unto the top of the second hill, upon which there'll be a small town. Long ways off, so no thoughts there yet. The 2 x 4 contains three levels: the base desert level(Pink), a higher 2nd level(Blue) tunnel/break (For hiding a train/engine), and a higher third/fourth elevation (Yellow/Green) which terminates in a high trestle over the blue level valley, and a small mine: Cars are stored in the blue hide away region. The first level has the basics: station, watertower, basics. Tucked under the moutain is a Small turntable, with the side of the hill replaced by the front of a roundhouse. This allows the hiding of additional smaller locomotives. This first level goes into the 4x7, where it then coils up tot he subsequential levels. At this point, the problem I see is that possibly the Downgrade is too steep. This is a down grade, so good news there, and if a train has to go up, then there is the option fo knock the train into pieces, and take it up piece by piece. 6 axle diesels? Bigboys? Challengers??? NOOOOO!!! hehehehe, everything for the mostpart will be small. A big uinit might pop up at the desert end once in a while, the head of presumably a mainling train, as this is the Last Station on the Main route before things are turned over to this smaller railroad company. [ April 22, 2005, 05:20 AM: Message edited by: Benny ]
hmmmm... Looks crowded, but people with small places have to be creative. If you switched to N scale... uhm sorry just had to mention it. Most people like the scale they're in, but if you had that much space in N scale you'd have an empire. You could buy one of those new mallets and some big diesels and just go to town. Ok, so if you built that for HO scale... 1. I'm concerned about the yellow tracks up top. Those curves sort of crowd each other too much. 2.Also the yellow flex track piece leading into your switch is going to probably end up with some outrageously tight bend at the end. It will limit your running capability to whatever radius that little section ends up being. 3.The blue curves at the back seem aweful close together too.
i gotta agree with the previous reply, looks to me like its awful cluttered.Especially considering you wanna replicate the desert. keeping in mind you wanna stay in HO and you wanna get some elevation, you might wanna try using a 4X8 that extra foot can help more than youd think. If i was looking into getting the max amount of elevation i would think crossing the line over in a figure 8 is best way to go. you still need steep (4% and up) but you can gain as much elevation as you want ( just adjust the amount of turn. Basicly it turn into a big helix. connect thatfigure 8 helix with a loop at the bottom, add you yard and you got yourself a layout. you can ahve your peddler engine strolling at the foot of the hill and have your "climbing" engine tackle the big grade. You might consider adding a helper track somewhere midway. you can have the engine coming in and out of the hill, and if you paln a bit you can have the engine coming out in what will appear to be different direction as if he was travelling along distance...just some thoughts
Benny, I'm sorry I don't have a possitive comment. iit could be I don't see it properly. Good luck, have fun.
Steve's concerns first: At spot 1, Not enough room, the idea is that this is an escape track for Switchers. Road power (Anthing with a tender) will not be able to get out of this spot...unless trackage is all moved right about 3-6 inches, which space is available up by the Switch into the main grades. This adjustment can be made. At point 2a, where the Track is too close together (And painfully close to the wall) I can very well move loop out about 2 inches to the very edge at the most. At Point 2b, I could take care of that by moving the inner loop closer tot eh edge, and increase the length of the outer loop. The gains about 1-2 inches in these locations. Still painfully close, but squezed. I realize the track is still very close togther here. At Point 3, the S Curve: My planes are to run 40 Foot cars at the maximum, with very few 50 footers. Most cars will be kept within the 30 foot length. This, along with proper weight and metals wheels shoudl maintain agreeable operations. I will not be using my heavyweights on this layout, or much late steam era (BIG superpowers) other then as eye candy at the beginning (2x4 area) area. theoretically, the other end would continus off to a point in space...who knows where, but I can't go there! Concerning Desert/Clutter The only part that is desert is in the 2x4. The rest is Desert Mountain Country(Scrub Oak at the middle/bottom, Ponderosa Pine at the top), similar to that found through the Bradshaw Mountains of Arizona. The reson there is the Acess hole is because over that would be a Hill/Mountian top: with the proper scenery breaks, this area would provide the location of a small town, and a site for dumping cars from the more difficult areas. You basically will not be able to see the back blue tracks, and the back of that area would be open for access from below (my Bed) in the event or problems in that area. This access area should probably be coveres witha plexiglass shield to prevent objects like trains taking the dive over Bed Cliff. Trains: No interest in running anything large on this layout, and I'm entirely into the steam era, though there is a few diesels in my collection, mainly for sentimental reasons. The 22" radious does allow a little bit of freedom to the maximum that I will get in this space. Its not much, but there isn't a great amount of freedom available! The Yellow spur that ends in the green track would be at most 2-3 car trains, pulled by a smaller locomotive. As such, the radius can get as small as 15-18" and still allow trans to move in. I might want to add a spur someplace so that cars can be stored and changed between trains at intermittant locations: Since the mainline power cannot get into those tighter places, the smaller power moves the cars to a more convenient location. Obviously, there has to be an uncoupling somewhere, and if its on a grade...WHOOPS if the switch is thrown into the desert corner! That area with the green track would be the mountain High country, if you want to check a topographical map of Arizona, you might see how near Congress Arizona (One example) the elevation drops nearly 2000-3000 feet nearly instantly. At this high site would be a very small Precious Metal Mining town, ore out, goods in...not much, but enough to warrant rail service. Mainline power might be restricted to Consolidations (Spectrum), unless the curves can accomdate the bigger Mantua Mikado, thought that would of course be track limted to where the curves are a 22" raduis...the biggest constraint would then be end overhang. N scale would of course work easier, and HOn3 would be very nice, but...no interest in either.
I had Two versions, one without topographical details, and one with...and promptly after finishing the topography, I saved right over the other. I added a spur, but I don't like how it changed the back end. I kind of like having the open pit there for access into the corner. I think it was better without this concept. If I fond a way to put in that spur, I think I will, but the track off of it has to be in a place more friendly to a large access hole. Good thing I'm skinny!
Benny, I really admire your tenacity to get as much into this space as possible. I understand wanting to stay in your chosen scale, once you start aquiring eqipment and structures you sure don't want to have to replace it all. I will preface my comments by stating that I am far from hardcore prototypical with my own world. This design will allow a lot of running in a tight space so I do rate it high in the "not running in circles" department. I like to photogragh scenes so here are my thoughts concerning that. While multiple levels are great for getting more than one train in a picture, it can also highlight the "spagetti bowl" effect. You have a couple of spots where multiple lines cross, one spot has 3 levels all crossing. I admit this has a huge "gee wiz" factor that I like, but I've never seen anything like it in Arizona, or anywhere for that matter. Grades: Have you calculated these?? 9"- 12" is a LOT in any scale. It's not just if an engine can, it's how it looks while doing it. Between the noticible steep grades and criss crossing tracks I'm afraid it will look like a roller coaster in pictures. Having a layout that can grow and exspand is a great idea. Planning for unknown factors like taste change should be concidered. Things like opperation may not be a big deal now, but it doesn't mean it won't be later, so always leave yourself room to grow. There is only one person who needs to be happy with your design, we're just voices in the wind. Just my ramblings, take it for what it's worth.
I think your real problem is those 22 inch curves. If you went slightly smaller and accepted the limitation of that and stayed with smaller engines you might be able to fit it better. Also that yard may look ok on paper but once you get it laid out and try to switch some cars you'll realize those spurs are too short to hold anything.
Ben, go pick up a book called "small smart and practical track plans" I can name four or five plans out of that book that could fit your space instead of what you have.
Benny: IMO, that's way too much track for the space you have. Many times I follow an old axiom, "less is more". You can develop a more simplified trackplan in the space you have that will give you just as much enjoyment as the plan you have developed. With a simplified plan you'll be able able to run your equipment and also develop some nice scenery. Have fun... Stay cool and run steam.....
Allright, i have rethought part of it. The Main problem I have had myself withthe entire thing is that downgrade, where I ask the system to drop 9" in preactically 13 feet. That works out to about a 5.7% grade, which I think is thoughly too steep. I don't think the problem is the 22" curves, but rather, that I cannot get Down after making that fast loop. There IS a prototype in AZ that required a very similar system, the old Peavine between Cleator Arizona and CrwonKing, Arizona. At that spot, the trains had to go go form about 3000 feet up to about 5900 feet. Firat, they did a long set of switchbacks, the length of the mountain practically,before leveling out to approah the town. Unfortunately, the tracks into the town and side of the mountian they attacked with the switchback are nearly perpendicular to eachother. So to get into town, At the very top, in order to approach the town, they built a flying Wye up out of Trestle: basically, two legs are on the mountian side, and the third leg flies out on the side of the mountain. Is an intesting place if you ever go hiking in that country. All the railroadis gone, and most trackes of even the mines are gone too, but the switchback are still used today as a road for vehicles to get up to Crown King. I found a little info real fast about the whole thing, plent of history, but I have less interest in the prototype and more in the actual sight of trains...hehehe I have to go redesign my layout....that downgrade bugs me, the rest...I feel it all works. http://www.rockymountainprofiles.com/Cleator%20AZ.htm http://www.desertusa.com/mag03/jun/crown.html [ April 26, 2005, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: Benny ]
