So rising brass prices drove a large portion of modelers to plastic? The phrase "state of the art" comes to mind here. The use of the phrase "state of the art" and "high quality" is based on ones state of mind. For example, someone could tell me that their IHC SD35 is "state of the art", I would disagree and point to an Atlas SD35. However, if the IHC model was the only one in existence, or better than another model available then it would be agreed upon by the majority that it is the state of the art, or high quality. By the late 1970's Athearn and Atlas locomotives (and a couple others I'm sure I am forgetting) were considered state of the art. Aftermarket detail parts were also becoming available to the masses at this time. The models were held in high enough regard to still be common in our basements across the country to this day. High quality in detail, State of the art in mass production, state of the art in availability, state of the art in affordability, high quality in the drive system, high quality in the availability of detail parts and customization. See above.
No, and I can see this is running into a host of misconceptions regarding the situation. When brass was first mass marketed it was a huge, affordable, leap forward. But as prices escalated dramatically throughout the 70's, fewer and fewer average hobbyists could participate any longer thus shrinking the size of the market. Just as with what we've seen plastic do in the last decade, increasingly smaller runs raised prices and shrank the market ever further. The cycle continued down to the current day for the brass market. However, to justify the prices of the brass models that were being offered they eventually attained absolute museum quality with detail beyond the imagination of the average hobbyist. I get the strong impression from some of the posts here that few, if any, posters have ever actually held a recent example of a quality brass model in their hands and looked it over carefully. Yes, today's best plastic diesels are quite beautiful, but they really only come up to the detailing standards of their brass counterparts of a dozen and more years ago. And when it comes to steam, any brass collector will laugh at you if you even suggest that any of today's larger plastic steamers can be compared to the latest large brass examples. The fact is that big plastic steamers can never hope to rival big brass ones...unless they are fabricated in the same fashion as brass and sell for at least the same price. As to declining brass prices, this is a result of two factors, neither of which involves simply the advent of better plastic models to any degree. The first is that the majority of traditional brass collectors (as well as serious hobbyists who also purchased brass long ago) are today beginning to pass away in ever growing numbers. Their massive collections are being brought up for sale en mass by their families (look at the brass listings on eBay!). These sorts of gentlemen are no longer represented in our hobby, interest in the brass collecting hobby having dwindled to almost nothing today and there are few, if any, serious newcomers. Without a resale market, prices progressively decline. Then we have the rise of eBay. In the past few collectors knew just how many units of a given locomotive had been run. The Brown Book gave some idea but for years was even out of print and almost unavailable. Many models were considered to be very rare, commanding huge resale prices. Often, the market prices were simply based on a brass dealers' "opinion" of the value. In recent years the eBay listings have dispelled a great many myths about the numbers and availability of given brass models. In the past you might have waited years for your local brass dealer to come up with an example of your favorite loco for resale. With the coming of eBay, folks discovered that you now often had a choice of that same model maybe a couple of time each month, with a selling price 30%-40% and more below a brass dealer's price! No longer were those folks still interested in brass at the mercy of dealers...and as a result, values and price dropped. What it has come down to is that there is a glut of brass in the marketplace today relative to the number of hobbyist still interested in buying brass. With ever fewer hobbyists interested in brass we will likely continue to see prices drop. Particularly where brass diesels are concerned, their prices may eventually even match those of their latest plastic counterparts. NYW&B
All I can say is the Brass, both HO and N that I have had my hands on was not better than the high end plastic available, in either running qualities or detail. The drives are antiquated designs and take a lot of work to get to run smooth. My Key H8 runs well enough but my $150 Bachmann Heavy Mountain will run rings around for both slow speed and smoothness. Not to mention the road specific details on the C&O version are right on par with the $1000 Key loco. I helped a friend sell an HO collection. Before selling, I checked to make sure each ran and I was not impressed with any of them. The best running of the bunch was a Key PRR M1, beyond that, they were herky, jerky and not really impressive. He lost his behind when selling his collection. Some of the trolleys and very unique items sold for $50-75 a piece. At one point I told him that they would be worth more to me as display pieces than the money he was getting for them. I have had my hands on my fair share of brass, I have no desire to buy a brass model unless it is something I can get no other way. I have taken to kitbashing my own loco's on known good mechanisms rather than take a chance on wasting money on a poor running brass model. BTW I build in brass.....
I can see the parallel to some degree over the history of brass vs where plastic is going in terms of plastic train models being produced in smaller and smaller runs for higher prices - that seems to be what has been happening in plastic over recent years. If manufacturers can move to locations that control costs, that may help revive production and keep costs in check, after they make a successful transition. Tom Haedrich of Atlas allluded to this in his comments at the closing of the Atlas forum. Hopefully that is true. Now Athearn will need to get it's RTR line moved and back in production so that means months of waiting to see any new announcements I would expect. At least this will help me catch up with items that were coming to market faster than I could afford them. As far as "museum quality brass" vs plastic, it's really a moot point for many of us. As I watched people quote prices of newer, finished brass HO diesels selling for upwards of 500 and 600 dollars, I knew I would never be in a position to take such a purchase seriously, and the last four years of unemployment and underemployment tied together with high costs of living, I have never had an opportunity to consider holding a museum quality brass loco, anymore than I would holding the crown jewels of England. So all of this discussion of the brass market is academic to many of us peasants and probably only good for "hobby product economic theory". We can't demand the so called museum level of detail for being far out of the realm of affordability when such mundane things as affording health insurance, a roof over our heads and auto expenses leave little left toward such luxuries. I have been involved in watching the market of what I can afford, and thats the HO better quality model market. When I look at the more recent run of Athearns RTR tunnel motors, they are approaching museum quality brass in terms of fidelity to prototype and and details. At least all of the major signature details to a Rio Grande fan are there (correct plow, correct light package, mu hoses, coupler lift bars, individual grab irons, correct fuel tank, leslie antenae etc... not much left to add except drop step, rerailer and MU receptacle. Certainly I am happy with much of what has been offered to me in the last 5 years for my prototypes (SP and D&RGW). Again, the argument is that the brass market changed long before detailed RTR plastic hit the shelves. If that is the case, then the high quality detailed plastic of engines and passenger cars is the nail in the coffin from my low position in life. I never owned a brass engine, but I did manage to build an 11 car Kumata/OL/HCB/Challenger brass California Zephyr. Naturally when the fully finished BLI cars came out, I bought them and sold off my brass CZ set and like most, I took a bath on the sales, selling the set for about half of what I paid (after consignment commission). The only brass I have now are a couple of Palace Car Company P-S Prospector combines I bought at bargain prices of $120 and 170, next to the $500+ Division Point versions, and 6 D&RGW 01400 brass cabooses, the only way to have a correct caboose for that RR (short of craftsman kits or scratchbuilding).
