Let's see... the "latest and greatest" announcements for steamers and some diesels has been sound and dual mode decoders... not that they are necessarily loved or wanted by the rank and file N scaler... or perhaps any other scale modeler. In most cases... I fall in the later not necessarily wanted as the "ONLY OPTION" catagory. The majority of my motive power is NOT DCC equiped and a some is not DCC ready or DCC friendly. I have not made the 'quantum leap' into the DCC field... and might continue to wait... because the cost to convert everything I have (and like) is too expensive. I have five DCC dual mode models. 2 Challengers, 2 PCM E7s and the ConCor Goose. I use the MRC "Black Box" to run these on my DC layout (still under construction). I really hate to connect and disconnect the 'Black Box' from the power pack everytime I want to run my regular DC engines. Why doesn't someone... MRC are you listening.... create a power pack which is DC/DCC dual mode ready With the proliferation of dual mode decoders... a dual mode pack is almost a necessity. The Athearn Challenger comes equiped with an RF controller which is nice, but, batteries run out and the control won't cover all of the functions of the sound decoder. The PCM products required the purchase of an additional controler to run their engines in DC mode The Black Box by MRC runs both Athearn and PCM units but must be spliced between the power pack and the connection to the track. DC engines will not run... and might be damaged... if the Black Box is not removed.
Sounds a bit dangerious . Couldn't you fry a loco if the mode was wrong ? Wouldn't this make that easier to do upon initial start up ?
Could this be done with an old Master Switch. Side A to DC. Side B to DCC. Center off. MRC seems to have fewer DC models available, at least for HO/N scales. I also notice you can't use the Micro Mark center off meters with DCC. THere may be other ways to monitor lokie performance?
I Don't Believe I am Writing This I like the idea of a dual power system as more and more vendors get on board with the decoders pre - installed. I am guessing that it is still cheaper to produce them separately. //I better not open this thread again. It could be dangerous. I might start looking at DCC equipment.
Don't see why not. This is exactly how some use both DC power packs and DCC systems on the same layout, including me. Not at the same time of course, but selectively. You might find it easier to have two power packs, one with the Black Box, the other without. When one is "on" the other is "off." Ben
Integrating the "master switch" into the dual mode controller would be easy enough I guess. The operator would still be responsible for selecting the mode and for determining what's sitting on the rails and how it would be affected at the moment the switch is changed. An auto-sensing circuit to "sniff" the rail and determine the type of loco present could be built I suppose, but seems rather complicated. I have a Challenger and have acquired four decoder equipped locos in my otherwise DC collection, so recently I purchased a NCE DCC system and plan on installing it next to my DC throttles and adding the appropriate switches to select the power source for my rails. I didn't think that would be a great hardship for me. I have more Challengers and Big Boys on reserve, I'm sure more dual mode locos are likely coming, and I intend on migrating towards more DCC in the future and converting some of my favorite consists from my collection, but not all.
I think the argument may be that most DC customers are commonly only running one loco at a time so the manufactures haven't thought about cycling back and for between DC and DC w/sound. It is simple enough to wire your black box so it is switchable. I believe an Atlas Cab selector would work fine. Treat DC as Cab A and Black Box as Cab B. A $10 switch doesn't seem to justify a whole new controler which would probably run you $100. At that point, just buy a DCC system which most will allow you to run a DC loco on address 0 and you have a "dual mode" system with more flexiblity than a black box.
I built a little switching box into my 2x4 layout just for that purpose. I just run my DC power in through a phone jack. There is a toggle switch between the DC and DCC power. And the little switch at the bottom changes a siding I have over to a DCC test/programing track if I need it. As you can tell, its still under construction.
Like Curn I have both DC and DCC currently wired to the under cunstruction layout. Rather than using a switch I use terminals with disconnection pins - 4 terminals, 2 pins - to switch between the control, and a separate switch on a makeshift panel to switch between layout and programme tracks.
If I am making the correct deduction from this topic and its posts, these so-called 'smart' decoders ain't really none too smart after all. If I want to run this new B-mann USRA heavy 4-8-2 that comes only decoder equipped, I can not just put it onto my track, turn up my MRC 2400 and let it run; I must buy a special box, controller or some such thing. Can anyone confirm or deny?
No, not at all. Dual mode decoders do not require the remote. The remote is only there to access the sound features on the sound equipped loco's. Bachmann has been selling much of their HO with dual mode decoders for a year or so now. You simply set the loco on the track and throttle up. The only difference in a dual mode decoderized loco is that the DC start up voltage is about 3v to power up the decoder. From there on, it works off the throttle just as normal.
How does the MRC black box WORK? Is it really a bare-bones DCC system in disguise? Does it send DC or AC current to the tracks? If it sends DC, how does it access the sound features? Moreover, if it sends DC, what could possibly cause problems or damage to non-decoder locos? Is that just a cover-their-ass disclaimer? If there really is a technical reason why the Black Box can't be connected while using non-decoder locos, then I think it was dumb of MRC not to put a bypass switch on the black box that allows it to be taken out of the circuit without detaching wires. That would solve our friend's problem here without the need for a "dual mode power pack." There's no reason for a true dual mode power pack to exist. As pointed out, most DCC systems allow control of one DC train. If you're going to run more than one DC train you need block control. If you have block control, you need separate power packs. OTOH, if you're going to run only one train at a time, then DCC is mostly a waste of money for you, and the blackbox+$10 switch is a good solution for your sound decoder locos.
I guess I need to explain what the Black Box does. The dual mode decoder engines will run on the DC track without a controller, however, as mentioned... they tend to need a lot of current to get going and the effects of the decoder for lights and sounds cannot be accessed. The Black Box allows for the user to access light and sound features of a dual mode decoder. I'm not sure if it will work with regular decoders... I doubt it... but I haven't tried either (I have one DCC engine with Digitrax decoder). Many of your explanations may be good reasons for MRC and others to pass-on the Dual Mode Pack. Jagged Ben's point about having and on-off switch for the Black Box would have been a better solution for MRC. Another possibility for the lack of support for dual mode packs may simply be that MRC makes an entry level DCC system and they are not interested in keeping people 'on-the-fence'. They may expect, if you have DC engines, one can be run in the "0" setting on their DCC system.
I'm not sure but I think I know how the MRC Black Box works. I believe it puts a DCC signal on the rails and sends commands using the broadcast address. Decoders are suposed to respond to the broadcast address no matter what address is programmed into the decoder. If this is how it works, then if you place a DC engine on the tracks, it would just sit there and hum like it would on a DCC layout, but it would not hurt the engine unless you left it on there and it heated up or the voltage is to high for the motor. Also, this means that it should work with non-sound DCC decoders.
Interesting...so you think it IS a bare bones DCC system in disguise. Interesting...and if you're right then it was dumb of them not to include a bypass switch. (I mean, duh, right?)
Not sure this will help answer any questions, but I have the Precision Craft Models DCMaster Analog Control Module hooked up between my Aristo-Craft ART-5480 wireless throttle and the track. This lets me operate and program my LokSound locos - and operate the bell, horn, and adjust the volume of the loco. I have been running with this set up for a few months with both PCM locos and regular DC locos. No problems so far.
When I got my PCM E7s... I was mad when I could not access the sounds or lights unless I bought their " Precision Craft Models DCMaster Analog Control Module". I figured for the price I was paying for the E7s... they should have provided a control module for DC users. I ended up buying one about a week after I received the engines. Unfortunately... I think it only works with that particular type of sound decoder. I later found out that the Black Box controller works on the Loksound and Tsunami sound decoders and bought that one too. The Precision Craft Models DCMaster Analog Control Module is now excess 'cost' for trying out the PCM E7s.
