Acme, an N Scale HCD Layout

logging loco Feb 5, 2021

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  1. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

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    As long as there is at least one window accessible* in a bedroom, that meets fire code everywhere I know of.

    If there is no bed in the room, then it doesn't matter anyway.

    But check your local residential building code to be sure. The local fire department should be able to answer that for you as well.

    *not blocked by furniture, sill less than x feet above floor, etc. (remember, a fireman may be entering the house from the bedroom window as well). This also applies to 2nd floor bedrooms.
     
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  2. Sepp K

    Sepp K TrainBoard Member

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    John, If you still have my email, drop me a line and we'll try to get together, or PM me here.
     
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  3. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    I cannot find your email address.
    I sent you a text.
     
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  4. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thanks BigJake. Not much is up to code in this 200+ year old house. I need to be able to access windows for ventilation.

    My layout was supported by plastic shelves. Under its length. It had a bare HCD on top of the shelves. This bare door was held in place by rubber floor protectors screwed to the bottom facing side of this door. (Not the actual bottom edge of door.) The floor protectors fit snugly in the corner sockets of the top shelf.

    The layout HCD sat atop the bare HCD. The HCD on HCD made the layout easy to slide around and maneuver to access area when working on it.

    Now I plan on having shelves just at each end of the layout leaving bellow the middle open. The layout will run along the wall in front of the window.
    I'm going to cross cut the 80" bottom door in half and put it atop the shelves. This way I'll be able to slide the layout out from the window. The bottom of layout is approximately 52" above the floor. I will be able to duck under the layout to access window, at least for a few more years.
    I know this is kind of a make shift way of supporting the layout. This layout is just a stepping stone to hone my scenery skills and get experience with new model paints.
    If I eventually build a logging layout it will be a more conventional shelf layout probably with a lft out to access the window.
     
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  5. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

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    I think 200+ year-old houses are covered by great-great-great-...-grandfather clauses!

    Beware that HCDs typically only have thin cardboard-like webbing supporting the interior of the door-skins. The skins support the interior frame, and the frame support (stretches) the skins. As long as the frame around the inside perimeter of the door, and itself is intact, it is a strong structure. But when cut in two, you'll need to insert a snug-fitting structural member to span the open edges, and maintain the support of the open skins across the cut end. Foam board of the right thickness to contact both skins might work too, but most folks glue in a snug-fitting wooden cross-member.
     
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  6. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thanks BigJake,
    I've seen doors with cardboard honeycomb filling.
    Back around pages 7 - 9 I ripped the layout door in two and added fillers. The door had pressed sawdust filler strips, sort of like the old pre -styrofoam black Celotex. It gave off a strong smell when cut. I believe from formaldehyde glue.

    Gotta go
    Logging Loco
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2024
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  7. BigJake

    BigJake TrainBoard Member

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    Sounds like you got it covered. All I've ever seen on interior passage doors is zig-zagged heavy paper webbing, with the paper's edges glued to both skins. And this is in DFW TX, where the climate milder. Well, it gets hot for sure (but not like AZ hot), but not that cold, at least not for very long.
     
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  8. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    Update, sort of.

    Here is the part where I ramble, sorry, no modeling this post, just rambling . . .

    I've come to a modeling crossroads. I guess in RR terminology, call it a flying junction.

    I've spent nearly a month rearranging my little train room, going through a lot of stuff, setting aside trains and material I know I'll never use. I've posted about it on weekend modeling plan threads and this winters layout party thread.

    About fifty years ago, while reading Ghost Lumber Towns of Central Pennsylvania and Muncy Valley Lifeline both by Thomas Taber III, I fell in love with the history of mining, lumbering, ice harvesting and large wooden resort hotels in Pennsylvanias Wyoming, Sullivan and Bradford Counties.

    When I returned to model railroading as a young adult in the mid 1980's there wasn't much available in the way of N scale logging equipment. There were some white metal log buggy kits and the Joe Works Shay.

    When Atlas/Kato came out with transition era diesels they ran much better than any US prototype N scale steam. There was also an abundance of transition era rolling stock available.

    So kind of by default I focused on the PRR. Over the years I was involved with a couple NTRAK clubs. I stuck with and expanded my PRR, LV and RDG locomotives and rolling stock. When available I purchased building kits that would fit a logging railroad and stored them away.

    I started the HCD layout in 2020. If you care to read, I posted my goals in the HCD group thread back then, post number 64.
    https://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/hcd-group.126603/page-4#post-1149074

    It's been almost five years since I started the layout. I've not gotten any younger. Some of my goals have changed. I won't bore you with them.

    So this brings us to the crossroads. Do I go forward with building the layout as a transition era layout? Do I forego transition era and build the layout as a freelance 1920's -1930's era North Central Pa short line and logging layout.

    The current layout size and track plan doesn't allow for appropriate size log ponds or lumber drying yards for a large mill or mills. Then there is Unitrak. It's bullet proof. This is the third layout for most of it. Even with paint and ballast I don't think Unitrack will have that prototypical shortline, woods railroad look.

    I could continue working on the layout without ballasting track then come back later and gradually replace track in sections built at the workbench. This could be flex track or handlaid. I could also add a couple hand laid curved switches in configurations not offered by track manufacturers. This would allow me to add a future woods spur with the track switch near the front of the layout.

    I don’t think scrapping the layout and starting over would be a good idea at this time. Keeping the layout running as much as possible will best hold my interest and be the most direct path to getting me assembling buildings for the layout, no matter what era I settle on. Something I'm really looking forward to.

    I've got a little bit of time before I make a final decision. As far as the layout goes I'll soon be testing operation, verifying no track or wiring was damaged while it was moved around then propped up against the wall.

    If your still reading thanks for following along as I ramble.
    I'm pretty sure I'm going to be building a logging layout. Which ever era and locale I go with I know I'll have fun.

    Thanks,
    logging loco
     
  9. platypus

    platypus TrainBoard Member

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    Looking forward to seeing your logging layout whatever it might turn out to be!
     
  10. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    I spent a little time making some temporary wood brackets to hold temporary pantograph style desk lamps to light the layout while I work on it.

    I know I'll need to adjust the height of the lamps when I eventually build a backdrop and upper valance, if I decide to keep them. I did not want to be drilling a bunch of holes in the 200+ year old window casing.

    The wooden brackets are just scraps of furing strip with a block attached to the back side at the top. The block rests on the upper casing and is held in place by by a pair of finish nails into the upper casing. The nail holes will be out of sight when brackets are removed.

    Pictures will follow.
     
  11. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    I know it looks crapy, but . . . I needed more light while working on the layout.
    20250123_155544.jpg

    Walls are white, lamps warm white. Camera really gives a peach tone to the walls. Window trim is color is period correct for age of house. Room was previously for my wifes treadmill. I'm slowly trying to convince her we should repaint all the trim.

    I'll need to fabricate and install the backdrop and LED lights prior choosing colors for scenery. I'm planning on the backdrop and sides to be free standing in a channel on the HCD.

    I can extend the layout length by about 10"-12". I wasn't going to do this for transition era layout. Since deciding to go logging I may need the extra realestate to fit a log pond or two.
     
  12. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    I just looked up the dimensions of both the RLW Slatyforks Sawmill and the N Scale Architect Long Valley Lumber Mill kit.

    Over all in N scale they are 13.35"×6.75", and 10"×6" respectively.

    For each building I'm going to make up a full size footprint on graph paper and see if there will even be enough room for log puddles let alone two log ponds.

    Many years ago I figured out that building the town of Laquin with it's two large band mills, stave mill, heading mill, hub factory, kindling factory other lumber related industries, would require an area something like 30ft long. I forget how deep/wide.

    I'd love to have two mills and a kindling factory on my layout. Probably not enough room to do one double band saw mill justice.
     
  13. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    Slatyforks looks massive on paper.

    20250123_204249.jpg

    I can probably omit the sections I hash marked in drawing.

    If I remember correctly most large North Central Pa band mills had very tall lumber trestles, approximately twenty feet high, not the short trestles like the mill in the kit. It's easier to lower large timbers down into a rail car then stack it up in one.

    The deck of the mill end of trestle work would be at the same level as the mills main production floor, around two stories up.

    Sawn lumber would exit at the gable end of the mill opposite the jack slip, not out the sides.
    I don’t recall mention of let down style transfer tables like in Slatyforks.
     
  14. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    In order to omit the let down tables and side exits to lumber docks I did a little origami on my sawmill footprint diagram.

    20250125_172732.jpg

    Looks like the best way to fit the the mill in. I would need to a trestle perpendicular to the lumber yard tracks then branch of to parallel the tracks.

    Rotating the mill 90° clockwise puts the end of jackslip way to close to the log dump. A double band mill like Slatyforks could have a lumber drying yard up to a mile long. I've only about 18".

    In all the photos I've looked at over the years I've never seen an overweight mill hand. I always wondered how someone could push a cart with a large load of heavy green lumber such distances for 12hrs a day.

    Only a few years ago I learned the trestles would be gently sloped downhill so that gravity helped move the loaded lumber carts. Only empty carts were pushed up hill back to the mill. I'd hate to be a dock worker that over shot the proper unloading place and need to push a loaded cart up hill.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2025
  15. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    Originally this layout was based on MR's Carolina Central. The photo in my previous post you can see where I marked out building locations. I spent a lot of time figuring out building locations and track arrangement for switching operations. Now none of that applies.
     
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  16. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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  17. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    20250125_235633.jpg

    I finally started cleaning track and doing some test runs.

    I tried cleaning the track with alcohol on a paper towel. After a pass or two the paper towel would be clean after passing over the rails. Even after the alcohol wipe a locomotive would stall every couple inches.

    I need something with a little more umph to clean track. I don't like to use anything abrasive. I believe abrasives scratch the rail head. The scratches then hold dirt causing track to get dity faster and making track harder clean in the future.

    I clean track with a non abrasive white rectangular eraser bar. The eraser gets dirty very quickly. I give it a couple passes on an old emery cloth scrap until the dirty layer of eraser is removed. Then I give the eraser a couple passes with a brush to remove any abrasive.

    The eraser sheds some material during use. I brush it off the track and come back later and vacuum it up.

    I was able to get a Life Like SW to operate well on about four foot of mainline. The Atlas/Micro Ace mogil was a lot more finicky, but then again based on my experience N scale diesels usually do run better than N steam.

    The layout is DC powered by two old TYCO transformers. Throttles are MRC 55 designed to be handheld. I mounted them to the control panel.

    One of the two throttles are working intermittently. I believe the direction switch had been damaged in storage.

    I'll look at replacing the switch at a later date.
     
  18. badlandnp

    badlandnp TrainBoard Member

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    I treat my track with a CRC product, and electrical 'lubricant.' when I feel up to going out to the Trainshed, I will get the specific's on it. (Sore throat and the yuk today.) Anyway, I use a very thin film of it and allow it to dry, then it keeps the track conductive even with the ash and dust I get in my "shed' due to being next to the railyard and heating with a woodstove.
     
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  19. badlandnp

    badlandnp TrainBoard Member

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    Had to go quiet the dogs, so hit the Trainshed. It is CRC 2-26. Ace has it here where I am. Somewhere I have a tutorial video of it......
     
  20. logging loco

    logging loco TrainBoard Supporter

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    Thanks I appreciate it.

    I've had the same bottle of origional Rail-Zip for years. I haven't really used it enough to form an opinion on it.

    I have a spray can of sewing machine lubricant I was going to try when Rail-Zip is gone. I forget the name. I'll look tomorrow. It is highly recommended for sewing machines because it dries and doesn't gum up and hold lint like some lubricants.

    I inherited mom's 1957 rose pink Kennmore sewing machine. It needs rewired and lubed.

    Hope you feel better soon.
     

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