I've been searching for a better source than Radio Shack for small gauge wire. In my search I found couple of places. 22 gauge solid is what I want. They sell it as tinned or untinned. Given the choice which would you buy? Same price for both versions. I am using the wire to make my own terminal unijoiners. Thanks Elwood
Which one do you think you should buy? One is tinned and ready to be soldered and the other needs to the tinned. That's a tough one. Or does that mean one is made out of tin while the other is copper. I've heard the best conductor is gold plated. Of course wire doesn't come gold plated. So, I'm guessing you may want to go with copper. Braided or solid should work. We have some trained experts here on soldering. Perhaps they can jump in here. Wish I could help but I know a guy who knows his stuff and should be able to answer this question. I will try to get back to you. Of course I could consult my Radio Shack books. I worked for them at one time. Yep, let me get back to you. In the meantime feel free to jump in and help Elwood out. Have fun!
I'd get the tinned. It means someone else has already applied the first coat of solder for you. I've done a fair amount of soldering on automotive wiring; I always tin the wires before I try to solder them to a contact. You'll be soldering to the side of the rails, so why not make it easy?
already tinned? Never really heard of that. Is the ends tinned? or the entire conductor? If it is just the ends, it wouldnt matter, because you will be cutting it to lenth anyway. Not sure what the advantage would be. If the entire wire is tinned, then I would go with that, because you wouldnt have to worry about tinning it to solder to connections. I wouldnt pay any premium for that, but if its the same price, then go with the tin. Better to have it tinned, and not need it, than need it, and not have it. Just saves you a step when soldering. If you aren't soldering with it, not worries, its not gonna hinder anthing. The only thing that might be different assuming the entire wire is tinned, is it might be slightly stiffer than un-tinned copper stranded wire.
By the way- there are several wholesale electrical houses on line. The shipping, though, is a killer when dealing with wire. I would, and have, stuck with Radio Shack.
I was gonna ask that. Whats wrong with Radio Shack. Im not a RS fan, in fact, they bug me, but, if I know what I want, and they got what I need, I use em.. What's wrong with their wire? That said, and on that subject. What bugs me is they have some real gumps behind the counter. If you know what ya want, fine, but if you are unsure, they are no help there, lol.. And the fact that they try to push their batteries on you no matter what you buy. They ALWAYS ask "Would you like batteries with that?" hahhah... That, and making you fill out a freaking form with everything. Radio Shack Dialog: Me: I would like to buy this .29 cent bulb. RS: No problem sir. Would you like any batteries with that? Me: Uh... no... RS: We have a sale on our premium batteries. Me: Don't need any. RS: We have any type you need. Me: I want the .29 cent bulb. This is all. RS: So, you don't need any batteries? Me: uh.. No.. Just the .29 cent bulb. RS: Ok then sir. Will this be cash, or charge? Me: It's a .29 cent bulb. RS: Would you like to apply for Radio Shack line of credit? Me: I think you are missunderstaning me. It's a .29 cent bulb. RS: So, you don't think you will need a Radio Line credit line? Me: <Blank Stare> RS: No batteries either? Me: <holding up a quarter and a dime> The .29 cent bulb please. RS: Ok then ma'am. Me: Dude, I am a 6'5" 500+ pound man... RS: Oh.. Im sorry sir. ME: With a beard. RS: I am sorry about that sir. Did I tell you about our special on premium Radio Shack batteries? Me: You did.. No thanks.. just the bulb please... cash... RS: <punching keys on the computer> Ok then sir, let me get this rang up for you. Me: <Blank Stare> RS: <tap tapiddy-tapp tap- chiccka chicca... tap tap.. tappidy tap tap...? Me: <still holding up a quarter and a dime> RS: And you said cash correct...? Me: <still holding up a quater and a dime> Yes... Cash.... RS:<tappidy tap tap...> Ok then... You full name sir? Me: Mickey Mouse. RS. Ok Mr. Mouse... Mailing address? Me: Excuse me? RS: You address Mr. Mouse? Me: uh.. You planning to come to my house and screw this bulb in? RS: We do not offer service calls sir. Me: Then why do you need my address to sell me a .29 cent bulb? RS: We like to keep track of our customers. ME: These bulbs have a tracking device in them? You need to know which room it will be in? RS: <snickering> Oh, no sir. That would be rediculous.. ME: Yeah, it would.. I'm just crazy like that.. RS: Would you like our service warranty with your purchase sir? ME: <blank stare> RS: it covers failure for with our limited warrantee for up to 3 years. It only has a 1 year coverage if you do not purchase the additional coverage. Me: <blank stare> I am going to hate myself for this, but, how much is the extended warrantee on a .29 cent bulb? RS: $29.95 sir. Me: <still holding up a quarter and a dime>. And that covers this bulb for 3 years? RS: yes it does sir. Me: tell ya what? I'll take 4 packs of those premium batteries there, and I'll go ahead and write a check for that as I fill out this credit app. My address is.... RS: Thank you sir for shopping with us today. Please come again.. ME: You betcha buckshot... :tb-confused:
I got a great deal on red/white 22 gauge on EBay. I think it was $18 for 1000 foot spool and shipping was another 8. More then enough for all my feeders.
I wouldn't buy any large quantity of wire from Radio Shack. Look around for an ELECTRICAL/ELECTRONICS SUPPLY COMPANY, and check their prices. There are several in my area (Louisville, KY metro area) that have MANY different types of wire. If they don't have the gauge you need, they can order it in for you. Tinned or not tinned, doesn't make any difference for me, I tin everything I solder anyway. I don't care for using SOLID wire, I prefer STRANDED wire. Stranded is more flexible and takes any vibration with out breaking.
Tudor, That's laughable. Sad thing is the guys and gals at Radio Shack are working on a commission or minimum wage...which ever comes first. Commission determined by what they ring up at the cash register. They are encouraged to ask questions in hopes you will spend more. He/she also gets credit for every RS credit or cell phone application he fills out. Add ons, add ons, add ons. So, if I were still working for them I would say he certainly did his job and tried every which way to inform you about the current sale or to look at other items. Relax, I'm not picking a fight with you. However, I have challenged the local district suits to consider how uncomfortable this is for the customer. Obviously uncomfortable and irritating for you. I mean I certainly got a good hee haw reading your incident report. At least they aren't asking for your address anymore. We had guys putting in Hollywood stars and making up address's when a customer refused to give his/her address. I think Micky Mouse visited our Radio Shack...........! It's not my intention to get off subject here and hi-jack Elwood's thread. Not sure what all the sensitivity over alleged hi-jackings is all about. A discussion goes where a discussion goes...controlling it shouldn't be an issue. Ahh, Elwood....it doesn't matter which one you buy. Unless you are putting in speakers and you need the run or purchased length of wire to connect...then you want the ends tinned. I'm betting an expert like you in the soldering department... already knows that. Have fun!
No worries. Actually that dialog was a "parody" and grossly exagerated. I have had those types of conversations with the counter help at Radio Shack, but not quite that bad, lol... That was "just for fun" at Radio Shacks expense, lol.. But I always did give them the Mickey Mouse name and the address to the White House with my purchases.. And honest ingin have actually bought batteries at Radio Shack, only to be asked if "i would like batteries with that..."... That one I did laugh out loud.. lol
That is funny. What bugs me is buying a small item, paying cash, and saying Cash when asked my name and being questioned. But adding a first name to Cash usually satisfies them. rolleyes: Ben
Back to the subject at hand, though I realize I'm ruining a wonderful thread that I'm thoroughly enjoying. I bought 22 gauge solid conductor copper wire at either Lowe's or HD, but it was called "bell wire" and sold in the same department as doorbells, not in the electrical department. Also, if you have a friend or acquaintance who works with a landline phone company, an alarm company, or an office building communication installation company, maybe they can get you scrap leftover from an installation. 22 gauge is what's normally used in all those jobs, and they throw away more footage than you could use on your largest layout. I'm still using wire from a "donation" that I received back in the '70s.
Isn't bell wire solid copper conductor? Unless that changed, it used to be. I never liked that for modeling, because like mentioned above, it is subject to vibration, or any movement can cause it to eventially crack causing broken, or loose connections, resulting in failure.. If it is stranded conductor I say, go for it. Fortunatly, I will not need any for many years to come. I have accumulated rolls and rolls of various colors (great for color coding systems and circuits). It will be some time before I need to try and find any more.
Sorry, I can not help it.. ... Sorry guys, but I have been a patron with Radio Shack for many many years. And as frustrated I used to get there, some of the conversations I have had with them are funny, so if I may, I would like to share ONE more story. And yes, THIS one IS real, and true. I just about died over this when this one happened. I promise, this is the last one, so this thread can progress with the original thoughts, and questions. But, to set the stage, I was building a small electronic project, and buying a project box, along with some assorted components. However, some of them were not on the rack, and needed to be asked for. Unfortunatly, it needed to be someone that actually understood electronic jargon in order to get help. Here was the dialog, and happened over 20 years ago, to me, in Louisianna. RS: May I help you sir? ME: Yes.. I am trying to find a couple parts not on your rack. RS: No problem sir. What may I help you find? ME: Well, I found the knobs, but can't find the potentiometer I need. RS: What kind of meter? ME: No, it's not a meter, it's a pot... RS: Sir, we don't do that here.. ME: No, no.. Not POT.. that is short for Potentiometer. RS: OHhh.. Ok, sorry about that.. I was wondering.. So.. What kind of meter is that again? ME: <blank stare> It's not a "meter". it is a variable resistor. RS: Ooohh.. Yeah, ok.. resistors are right here sir.. ME: No.. Your not understanding. These are regular common resistors. I need a VARIABLE resister. They are called "Pots" or "Potentiometers". You know, the kind that typically has a knob you can turn. RS: A knob? ME: yeah, they are used to tune in stuff.. Like frequencies, etc.. You know, they are also used for volume controls, and things like that.. RS: OHHH.. Volume knobs.. right here sir.. ME: no no... Those are just the knobs. I found those.. But, the knobs connect TO a pot. You normally dont actually see the pot, because they are IN a radio, or whatever.. RS: Ahhhh. OK then... I don't think we carry those kind. ME: Yeah ya do. I have bought them here before.. In fact, in this store.. RS: oh.. well.. what kind do you need? maybe I can order them? ME: yeah, thats a good idea.. I need 3 actually. I need a 10 microfarad. and two 3o microfarad. RS: <blank stare> ME: <blank stare> ----awkward silence---- RS: uh.. What kind of ferret sir? ME: 10, and two 30s.. RS: Micro ones? ME: huh? RS: I never seen a little ferret.. I bet they are cute... ME: <blank stare> RS: This is Radio Shack sir.. But there is a pet store two doors down. They might be able to help you with those... ME: Yeah.. I'll check with them.. Thanks... RS: If you need anything else, come again sir.. ME: You bet.. thanks.. I now return you to your regularly scedualed program. And yes, THAT one was NOT a parody, that one REALLY happened.. :tb-confused:
If I may throw one more word of caution at radio shack... I'm fairly veteran in retail electronics. I spent 2 years at a Best Buy location ranking within the top 100 out of their 2000 some stores. Late last year, I worked at RadioShack for 3 (three) weeks before I couldn't take it anymore! I think the entire time I worked there, not ONE of the other sales associates sold anything based on actual fact. I overheard the store MANAGER sell an antenna to an old lady based on the "fact" that "This antenna will probably pick up any station in California." I've seen associates "drop" current customers for new ones browsing more expensive products. Rediculous! Moral.. do your own research before going to radioshack!!! All they care about is commission.. period. Anyways.. wire Ace hardware is by far my favorite wire source. Next in line would be a big home improvement store. Better selection and better price.
Bell wire, phone wire, alarm wire are all solid conductor. Solid copper is superior when soldering to rails because there is only a single conductor to absorb heat and bond with the rail. Stranded wire tends to spread at its end, especially when heat and the pressure of a soldering iron are applied. This may cause wire strands to extend above the railhead when the solder cools and solidifies. Furthermore, the amount of vibration at the rail/wire bond is minimal. The strength and flexibility of 22 gauge copper and solder are more than sufficient to absorb the motion present when a train passes that spot. I have never had a rail/wire solder joint fail in over 50 years of using this technique.
Thanks guys. I started trying to make the terminal unijoiners a couple of days ago with "Bell Wire" I bought from my local Lowes. I don't know if there are varients but what they had as bell wire was 20 gauge solid. It turned out to be a little too big for the task and it was beyond pricey!! So off I went to Rat Shack where they were out of the big spools but had 22 gauge solid which was at the time, what I wanted. Now that worked pretty well on 4 practice feeders with the following dislikes: - It seemed stiff and brittle like it would snap without much provocation. - It was pricey - It had on the spool it was "processed and respooled" which might not be bad, but it can't be good for wire with a premium price. - While measuring a length of it for a 5th feeder, I heard a snap inside the insulation while just straightening the wire. You know that ain't good. I'm wiring my layout for DCC (even though it will be DC for now). I will be soldering to each piece of track (a.k.a PSG1790 style). Going to need more wire. So, in my search I stumbled upon FRY's(sp?) Electronics which I had heard of before. Their price was indeed cheaper than Radio Shack by a fair margin and the rating of the wire was higher which I assume meant it was a better quality wire. It was rated for twice the voltage, was not processed/respooled, and was UL listed which the RS wire was not. Cheaper and better? Why wouldn't I want some? So for the same price they offer "tinned" and "untinned". Being unfamiliar with "tinned" wire I didn't want to assume anything since there's no charge for advice here. Honestly I've been soldering for atleast 20 years and I've never heard of tinned wire. Not because it's not been around I suppose, but because in my other hobby, we didn't use much but 12-14 gauge stranded superflex which is a different animal altogether. I would "assume" that tinned was the way to go, but you know what they say about the word "assume". for me it seemed to good to be true that such a mythical beast existed, and with that in mind I feared that if the tinning was for a different purpose and added to the rigidity of the wire it might not be desirable for my useage. I also did a forum and a google search neither of which turned up much. I guess I was just more/less wondering what type you guys used. I have also since posting experimented with some RS 22 gauge stranded. I actually think the pros of it outweighs the cons and it is for sure more flexible, but more than that, should be stronger and less suceptible to breaking from being bent more than once. With all that said, I've decided to buy the 22 gauge stranded "tinned" version. Thanks to all who responded. Elwood EDIT: BTW I saw a couple people commented on the fears of using the stranded to solder to the rail. Just to clarify, I'm not soldering to the rail I am making terminal unijoiners.
See there, I knew that expert of 20 years plus experience... would show up. Elwood, after all our private conversations about soldering...I just got's to tease you a little. I knew.. you knew.. the answer. Good call. Soldering wire to rail joiners can be frustrating at best. I gave that up along time ago and now solder to the rail aka track. Seems every time I'd go to solder a rail joiner that wasn't making contact, (usually due to oxidation) leaving me with a dead section of track. It would invariably, inadvertently, ironically be one of my home soldered rail joiners. As I applied heat to the joiner to sweat in some solder the drop wire... dropped away. Now don't laugh...that ain't funny. Now the whole darn track block was dead. No sir, you won't find me messing with rail joiners aka unijoiners. After all... I solder all my uni or rail joiners. Saves me from problems down the road, as the layout ages. Elwood, I wish you luck with your project and I do hope this works out well for you. Now about Radio Shack. Careful guys with your comments here...they might be the true. Heck, I was once heard saying to a suit from Texas, "Do you really expect us to remember everything about each product when the best we can hope for is minimum wage?" There's more to tell but I'd only be venting. You are correct: In that you must know what it is you are buying. I also recommend you get to know the employees that work your favorite RS. In time you will learn which ones to trust and not. Did I ever say, "Let the buyer beware"? Someone did! Have fun!
I hear what you are saying, but I still prefer stranded. I used bell wire on other none-rail type projects, and just not crazy about it due to it's stiffness, have had long term issues. If you use stranded, I dont seem to have the issues you mentioned. If you twist the end tightly, and tin it, and not put so much pressure on it when soldering, it doesn't fray like mentioned. I do understand what you say tho, because obviously it can, but for me, I have not had those issues. Im sure bell wire will work fine,and has it's place, I just dont care for it. personal preference type of thing.
As to Radio Shack I only have two issues with them- The always battery question AND when I pay in cash, it goes like this- May we have your name? Cash. Johnny Cash. And your address so we can send you a catalogue. No address. I just walk the line. Nobody there has ever realized they have been had.
