Hello, I am new to this site and this is my first post. I am also new to model railroading. First a little background on my train experience: (feel free to skip to the question) I purchased my first train set on Jan 18th, 2008. I have an Athearn Warbonnet train set with Bachmann E-Z Track. I also purchased two of the "World's Greatest Hobby" track sets and an ovals worth of 22" radius curves. I have quickly found out you can not run much on 18" radius curves. So now I am getting ready to start on an 12' x 16' L shaped Dogbone style layout with a lower shelf for staging trains. The new layout will have 28" min. radius curves, code 100 track (mainly flex) and gentle switching. I have John Armstrong's book "Track Planning for Realistic Operation". With that I feel I can set up a reliable layout. I will be keeping the E-Z Track setup up during the time it takes me to build my other layout. It is essentialy a Tri-Oval track (18", 22" and 28") with 8 staging turnouts on a 6'x10' island. I have already acquired 4 Locomotives and set up an Atlas switch for my turnouts so I can run whichever train I like. With three ovals I can run three trains at once. Other than the hobby shop people, who have been great, (I do not know if it is ok to promote them or not?) I do not know anyone else who is in to trains. My Question (finally) is I have been looking at DCC Controllers and the MRC Prodigy Advance Squared looks easy to use. Is there a system that I should get instead of it? I want something to grow with my layout (especially if it ever consumes my whole basement) The large LCD is also a bonus for me. I have read about many of them and it seems that the Digitrax is the most popular but not the easiest to use. I know there are several threads on the subject. I have read most of them and I am still confused as ever. I guess it is like asking which is better Ford or Chevy? Most people like what they have. I like the MRC on paper and want to hear from others if it has any major drawbacks over the other systems. I have not and probably will not be joing any clubs. I/We are just doing this for our own enjoyment. So, what the clubs in my area are using is not really an issue. Thanks for your time. ~Kent P.S. My wife really wants to do some of the scenary! Yea! :tb-rolleyes:
The big debate here has been over Digitrax Zephyr and NCE PowerCab. See these two threads for lots of information: Zephyr Vs. Powercab Questions - TrainBoard.com NCE vs Digitrax - TrainBoard.com Whichever one you choose, you're going to love DCC.
I can not stress it enough, get hands on experence. That's the only way to tell if a certian system is right for you. Check your local hobby shop and run some trains on different systems, if they don't have DCC then they will know some one who does and will allow you to operate it. Barring that I would suggest NCE it's easy to understand and use as well as expandable. You have to think about exactly what you want to do now and in the future with a DCC system. I can only relate my experences with DCC which are not yours, I enjoyed useing the NCE system but I had a nightmare with Digitrax (Too tecky). Hope that helps you out. Lee "Still Training After All These Years"
I have both a Prodigy Advanced Squared and a Lenz Set-100. Both work well and I'm happy with them. As other posters have said get your hands on em and see what feels right to you. Amazingly the Lenz Set-100 is my favorite of the 2 for feel and ease of use. I also prefer the button speed control to the knob on the Prodigy. But the Lenz Set-100 won't program BLI sound loco's address without a booster and the Prodigy Advanced Squared will. That is the only real cabability difference I've seen.
I think that is one of the most imprtant questions to ask when deciding on a system. There are several good systems out there and different ones do different things better, but there are also things that certain sets will not do, and if one of those is a feature you think you might need, then you can illimanate certain sets. Here is what I consider the major short comings of the MRC system, but they may not be to you if you do not need these features: No "engineer's cab." An engineer's cab is a smaller form factor, reduced function cab that doesn't allow programming. I will add, however, that with the MRC system you can set it up so that certain cabs can not program(so that beginners don't accidently program something they aren't supposed to). Unknown computer interface. MRC is supposed to come out with a computer interface, but no one has given any information on what it's capabilities are. No form of block detection, signaling or feedback. You can certainly still do block detection and signalling, but it would not be an integrated system. If none of these items bother you , I cant think of any other reason right off hand not to go with MRC.
Happywrench: Making a DCC system choice can be difficult because when we start out we often don't know what our ultimate requirements are going to be. I sure didn't. I've now had a little DCC experience....just enough to realize that there are several very good systems out there, each of which have proved to be very good, depending upon a persons situation. So, read, study, look, touch and feel as many as you can to see what might be best for you. As you mentioned Prodigy Advance Squared, I can tell you some of the things it doesn't do. I wrote a complete review of the wireless version on the trains.com forum but I'll list here just the items that I think are lacking: Things it won't do: 1. This display is not backlit. 2. Binary programming is not available (I hope I'm using the correct term). You can't set individual bits but must calculate the decimal value in insert in the CV that will set all of the bits correctly. This isn't too big a deal as there are handy charts that allow you to do this easily. 3. If you want to control turnouts via DCC (as I do), you cannot control loco speed and direction while the turnout controls are on the screen. But as soon as you hit "Enter" you're back in control. My Lenz system allowed this and it is very convenient when doing a lot of switching (if you control turnouts by DCC). 4. There is no way to set Function keys to momentary. However the F2 key (horn/whistle) is alreadu factory set to momentary, which is want most people want. 5. MRC does not have an engineer's throttle, just the one size, full featured cab. This is not a problem for me as I only want the one cab that does everything. If you do want extra cabs for additional operators you don't have to worry about them messing up things by programming as you can lock out any cabs from doing this. 6. No double ended consists like NCE and only one Universal consist allowed per system. And also, as CSXrobert mentioned, they do not yet have a computer interface. But it will be forthcoming this year. Overall I feel very favorable towards the Prodigy Advanced offering, but again, take a good look at all of them. And, don't hesitate to ask questions, this is a big decision and it's better to ask than just assume or hope a system will do what you want. Jerry
OK, I've got some serious reading to do. I am going to try and get/download the manuals from the top ones I am looking at. MRC, Prodigy Advance Squared, Digitrax, Super Empire Builder NCE, PH-Pro Lenz, Set 90/100 All of them the non-wireless versions for now. PC connectivity seems like it would be something I would want. (I have 5 PCs in my house) Double ended consists seems likely for some of my consists on my future layout. Block Detection integration seems like something I would want. Right now it seems Digitrax has the lead because of all of the peripherals and accessories it has. In the Walthers catalog: Digitrax 4 Pages of stuff Lenz 3 pages NCE 2 Pages MRC 1 page Are there any others I should consider? Do I need more than 12 functions? f2 f12 f28 etc? I am lost with the binary coding reference.(I suppose it will make more sense after I read the manuals) As far as sound, Will they all handle/program the popular current sound devices? Thanks Again for your Time ~Kent
Digitrax also supports a proprietary transponding system. I'm not sure which of the others have transponding.
Kent, As far as considering another system if you want bi-drectional communation and downloadable software up-grade then add Zimo to your list. Two: Maybe, if you are considering sound but not likely. Three: Partly yes, however it has been my experence that you really don't know a thing untell you have hands on doing. And often it is more complated to explain it than to do it. Four: That depends on the sound system, I have heard there is some minor issues. Others with more experence with sound chime in here. Regards, Lee "Still Training After All These Years"
You may want to consider the Digitrax Super Chief instead of the Empire Builder. The Empire Builder doesn't allow read-back of values programmed into the CVs. Many feel that this read-back is very helpful. Maybe some Digitrax users can offer more info on this. Don't worry about the binary reference. This is a very minor consideration. For consisting, NCE will give you the best features. MRC will not. MRC is okay but if you will do a lot of consisting, especially with sound locos, MRC is not the best choice. I could be wrong on this as I'm a new MRC user. If MRC otherwise really appeals to you, you may want to go on their Yahoo Group and ask more about consisting. The Lenz Set 100 is excellent (I've used is for a couple of years) and the consisting works very well. It doesn't do double ended but that's not too hard to overcome if you otherwise really like Lenz. Lenz also has an inexpensive wireless option via the use of an inexpensive cordless phone. You can do this for about $60. This wireless option runs speed/direction, functions and turnouts, but no programming or making/breaking consists. If you're running steam sound locos more than 28 functions may be nice, although I don't run steam and really don't know for sure. For diesel, 12 functions is plenty. I know nothing about block detection. Hopefuly others can give you some unbiased help on this. I hope you are enjoying your DCC studies. Just keep reading. I know I now read and understand stuff that was completely Greek to me the first time. Jerry
Here is a little more info regarding MRC consisting: Consisting with sound is better than I thought. With MRC you have to run the consist from the consist number. So, if your lead loco has sound you don' have to hit the recall button until the lead loco comes up, operate the sound, and then go back to the consist number to run speed/direction. What you can do for example, is set a CV on the lead loco to instruct it to operate sound from the consist number. On my QSI equipped GP7 I just changed CV21 to a value of 3 and now I can operate all of the functions from the consist number. This solves a problem that I thought was a big drawback. Now with regard to double ended consists, this is not such a big deal either. Let's say you're operating a "turn" and when your consists needs to be set to run back the other way, you just clear the consist and then set up a new consist to run the other direction. With the easy MRC consisting keys this only takes a few seconds. I'm not trying to promote the MRC system, but with some of my earlier comments I just want to make it clear that it works better than I thought. In fact, I really don't like to recommend any DCC system to anyone for fear of leading them into something that may not really be best for them. I had this happen to me but luckily it turned out okay. Jerry
A good idea but I couldn't get it to work. The lead loco in the first consist still worked in the second consist (using the second consist number) but the second loco in the first consist would not respone in the second one. Jerry
