Due to fact that it will be some time until I have my attic in a model railroad freindly state (another year or two away as other household project compete for dollars) I have decided to pursue a much smaller model railroad project to pacify myself until the attic is ready for me to start on my planned little empire. I am planning on building a small around the walls shelf model railroad in my 9 x 12 office starting this late summer or early fall 2010. I was orginally planning on building this layout in a rural midwest farm area but changed my mind and went urban. The layout is inspired by Minnesota Commercial, a short line railroad that operates in the Twin Cities area in Minnesota. The layout is freelanced which is why I say inspired by. I do not fancy the idea of modeling a specific prototype location, at least not in this stage of my hobby. The layout is mainly a switching layout that allows for continious running with minimum radius curves of 24" which will allow me to run all of my HO equipment to include my Challenger and passenger cars for testing and when I am longing to run my equipment. However, this layout will be home to the Minnesota Commercial and as such small trains with one locomotive on point will be the rule of thumb. The idea is that this layout is somewhre near Saint Paul and Marionapolis (Minneapolis sort of....Marionapolis is the fictional city to be modeled in the attic sometime in the future). So the MN Commercial yard in Saint Paul, MN will be off the layout. This layout ties into the planned attic layout in that Minnesota Commercial Transfers to the BNSF yard in Marionapolis are planned. So either duplicate cars on each layout will exist or the physical cars can be transported between layouts for operating sessions and provides a nice tie in between the two planned layouts. This layout will have small on layout staging that can either contain another small train as a train works the layout. Or the on layout staging can be the starting and ending point for a single train. The layout will be controlled by Digitrax Empire Builder DCC and is currently planned to use Kato Unitrak. I do have this plan also created using Atlas track. I am leaning towards Kato track because of my favorable past experience. However, for a shortline, I do prefer the look of Atlas track.....so I am not 100% decided. The layout will likely have no more than two locomotives operating at any given time. I currenly own three Minnesota Commerical locomotives with one additional locomotive planned. This layout will provide me a decent test run to hone some skills prior to tackling the larger attic layout, a place to operate my equipment, and provides a decent tie in to my existing layout plans. I am looking forward to your thoughts ...the good, the bad, and the ugly
Overall like your plan but some things to consider: 1. You plan on having 4 engines but you have no engine facility anywhere on your plan. 2. There is no yard so no place to put extra cars. Cars rarely if ever go from industry to industry these days. They go yard to industry & back to yard then back to originating RRs. Think about putting 2-3 yard tracks off the only siding on your layout. You might also think about putting a staging yard underneath if you have the room. If not maybe add 3-4 tracks to your staging yard & hide it behind a painted Masonite backdrop. 3. Since you will soon be getting your attic, think about building this layout modular. That way you can break it down, then reuse & add the old parts to your new empire!
GPA, yep the flour mill may get old after a while. and yes, I made it a pain in the caboose to add some complexity. Normally I try to avoid added complexity but did so here due to the small layout size.
For Reference here are the current layout plans for my attic railroad. Briefly, The staging level is where entire trains can be stored and will be the starting and ending point for the majority of the trains on the layout. Staging represents the rest of the world where other railyards, industries, and customers will be plugged into computer based operations software such as RailOp. The main level is the City of Marionapolis (my version of Minneapolis but more inspired by Saint Paul....freelanced of course) where the yard is mainly BNSF but with some CP usage as well. CP main yard is off layout. The Marionapolis yard is the starting and ending point for local trains for BNSF and CP. BNSF and some CP trains originate and terminate at this yard. All industries on the main level are served by BNSF with exception to the Auto Assembly plant and the brewery. The grain elevator is jointly served by BNSF and CP. UP, TCW, CN, and MN Commercial all provide transfer trains to the BNSF. Interchanges with CP from these railroads occur off layout (CP main yard is off layout). In my world, the BNSF operates two heritage passenger trains, the Empire Builder and a small Mikado led passenger train. These trains operate between Marionapolis and staging (the rest of the world). NorthStar Commuter service runs from the upper level (TCW), Marionapolis, and staging. Amtrak will run between Marionapolis and staging. Planned operations for this layout are lenghty and I won't get into all of it on this post Upper level Is the Twin Cities Western regional railroad. The power plant is served by BNSF via trackage rights. The ethanol plant is served by TCW with departing ethanol unit trains are handled by Canadian Pacific. DDG unit trains are handled by Union Pacific. Non unit trains for ethanol and DDG are also handled by TCW as well as grain to the ethanol plant. All other industries on the upper level are handled by TCW. At some point, I will document all the planned details for the attic empire, it is lengthy. It is documented for my own use but I would like to organize the planned mess for others to understand the maddness ATTIC Layout plans
Hello again, I have been thinking about everyone's suggestions and have come up with another track plan. This plan incorporates a small yard (large for this layout) and a small under the layout staging yard. There still is no engine facility as this is assumed to exist off the layout. The real Minnesota Commecial's engine facility is a pretty good distance from their yard in Saint Paul, MN. No, this layout is not even close as being a prototype, it is MN Commerical inspired . Operations will consit of transfer jobs coming to the yard orginiating from BNSF, UP, CP yards. The transfers will be MN commercial transfer trains. (Until the attic layout is operational a few years from now....I will run my BNSF, CP, UP, TCW equipment for railfanning purposes ). I am considering of including interchange transfer from Twin Cities & Western trains as well. From the Minnesota Commercial yard, local industries will be served by one local train and possibly one of the three off layout destined trains (to staging representing MN Commercial daily runs which in real life are often powered with one locomotive except transfers which often have two locos). Design Notes The shelving width has been increased to 24" mainly due to easier selection of building materials. The transision from staging to the layout will be a ramp. What I have yet to figure out is how to handle the transition at the top of the ramp. I am plainning on using 1/2" plywood for the layout shelving base. Do I cut a linear hole in the shelving on the upper level to allow clearance for the ramp? Or do I use a narrower shelf for the upper level with a gap from the wall to allow ramp clearance? Also, I was planning on using shelf brackets, how do I go about securing the shelves to the wall without intruding onto the ramp? The attached PDF's are the updated layout plan. Office remodling is scheduled to begin in mid September with layout construction planned to begin in October. Full layout is not planned to be operational until February 2011 (I will not be able to purchase all of the track required until Jan 2011). Other layout details such as scenery, all buildings and other electronics (signals?, turnout control, grade crossings, layout lighting, etc) will be done as time permits following February 2011.
Matt, I like this latest version, and I may steal, err borrow some you ideas for myself. However, I think your staging tracks end in your duck under area. You may want to move the yard ladder to the other corner, so you can still have a lot of storage, or simply shorten your staging tracks (and trains). No matter what any of us say, it's your railroad and YOU are the one who has to be happy with it!
The staging area actually come just short of the duck under. The staging benchwork on the right side does not go all the way to the end of the office. I am actually working on a couple of more plans as I am trying to figure out how to transition between the levels. I know that I will have 6" of deck seperation between staging plywood and the plywood of the main level. I know that I will use a ramp at about a 4% grade to transition between the levels. What I am uncertain of is how to bring said ramp to the main level. In another thread, it was suggested to bring the ramp to the frong of the benchwork and then simply make the upper level shelf supports and the shelf itself narrower to accomidate the ramp. This makes sense but require a layout redesign on the bottom and right of the layout plan. This also bring up another question....scenery wise, how does one make the ramp coming up to the main level look good? How does one camoflague the ramp at the front of the layout? With a ramp at the back of the layout, it is easy to camoflague with a hill and a hill view block near the tunout for the track leading to the ramp. I am drawing a blank for the front of the layout as how to best hide the transition.
I liked your original version ALOT better. I would suggest adding a small 2-track yard to it though. I am designing a layout very similar to yours at:http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?p=716138#post716138
Here is the latest version of the plan that moves the ramp to staging to the front of the benchwork. I am still trying to figure out scenery wise, how to hide the actual transition between levels. The ramp decent I am thinking of using a retaing wall which will probably have a max height of 3" (thinking that the ramp will decend 3" before I decide to hide it from view of the main level. Here is the prototype "inspiration" for my little railroad. As stated before, I am doing this freelance and the prototype is serving as an inspiration. If you scroll north a little ways, you will pass the Twin Cities Amtrak station and then you will see the Minnesota Commercial yard. The MNRR enging facilites are at the starting poing of the map where you can see the roundhouse and turntable. http://maps.google.com/maps?rls=com...ocal_result&ct=image&resnum=2&ved=0CBkQnwIwAQ Attached the latest plan update less the staging level (really has not changed except the ramp has been moved some.
Matt Made a few changes to your latest office plan. See the attached revised plan crude as it is. 1. There are too many S curves from using Unitrak in your CAD program. Just change the switches from RH & LH to the opposite. 2. Add one more yard siding so you don't need the switchback to get to the grain elevator & you get one more engine service track. Use that track to display your favorite steam engine! The Santa Fe 4-8-4 3751 is stored at Amtrak's 8th St yard in LA today. 3. Move the Amtrak station more to the center of the yard. You may not have room for the station structure itself but have platforms on both sides of the 1st track w/ passenger, baggage carts, etc. & you'll have the impression there's a station there. Think of it as selective compression. LOL 4. With the staging track lead being in front it can't really be hidden realistically. It would be easier to hide it by running it behind scenery, backdrop, etc. Think about putting those modules set on legs, bookshelves set about 4" away from wall. Then put the lead track on short shelf brackets screwed to the wall. If you don't want to back in/out of staging, do runaround moves at either end.
Cajon, thanks for the feedback, You have given me allot to chew on and that's great!! I will play with some of those suggestions as I am not thilled with the yard as is. I really like the conecpt you sketched up for the yard....being that I being chicken and using Unitrak on this layout....we will see if the dimensions line up. I will say, I liked the selection of Unitrak in N-scale better than HO. If it get's too bad, I may just say the heck with it and go Atlas snap / flex track and use ground throws everywhere. I do not relish the idea of installing switch machines all over the place especially with the little clearance I am alloting myself between the main level and staging. I am inclined to leave the station near present location mainly because, I already own the kit and I want the tie in to the Amtrak Station in Saint Paul, which the Commercial runs by. I agree, I really really really don't like the staging track at the front of the benhwork, from an engineering point of view, having it in the front is an easy solution for level transition. Beneath the layout at roughly 32" in height, there will be around the walls shelving that is used for desk space (several computers and general purpose desk space). Unless I have leg supports for mounted to the desktop supporting the main level may be difficult. Here is a thought I just had..... if I support shelving for stanging with brackets (as currently planned) would it be possible to support the main level benchwork with "legs" attached to staging shelving? The staging shelving will be 6" beneath the main level. Could the legs be something as simple as 2x2 wood attached directly to the plywood shelves of staging and the mainlevel? This would eliminate the problem of trying to have the staging ramp navigate through or around shelf brackets. The brackets I am using are pretty sturdy and come out from the wall about 19". One pair can hold about 1000 pounds....so I think I am good with the weight ratio Stay tuned.....a few hundred more plan changes likely to occur
Well I took to hear some of the suggestions and I like the results. I reverted back to my plan that places the staging ramp to the rear of the benhwork. I think my idea to support the upper (main) level with wood supports attache the staging level shelf will work. All that would then have to be done is to insure that there is plenty of space for overhead clearance on the staging ramp. Some of the suggestions could not be incorporated due to geometry limitation of using Unitrak.....but I can live with this.
Matt Take a gander at this revision of your latest plan. This one allows trains from your staging lead to get to all the yard tracks vs just the short yard tracks.
Andy, Take a look I really like the idea of trains from statging being able to access the entire yard. I was worried about fouling up the "main line" while switching the yard but then I thought......HEY SILLY....this is a terminal short line railroad so no real worries about the mainline being cloged up. I had to cheat a little bit with my CAD program (AnyRail) as I could not line up some of the track pieces correctly using Unitrak...so in these three areas I used flex track. I will know better in real life once I have track on the benchwork if I will have to use Atlas track along with my plan Unitrak. Both are code 83 just have to have enough roadbed in place for the Atlas track to matchup up to the Unitrak. I have experimented with this before and it seemed to work ok. Main reason I am looking at unitrak is due to eas of use, I like their remote turnouts (everything enclosed on the newish ones), and re-usability. In the far future, it is likely I will want to do something else with this layout space perhaps once I have most of the Attic Empire (NorthStar Divison) operational. If I do, Unitrak is easier to tear up and resuse when compared to Atlas sectional / flex track. I am also not a huge fan on the way Atlas remote turnouts look....but I do like the way Atlas track looks in comparison to Unitrak. IMO I think the Atlas track is easier to model for yards and low maintenace track that Unitrak. I may re-draw this plan to use Atlas track for another comparison and compare cost as well.
Matt It's looking real good now. If you can, move the Xover just left of the station further left depending on how long your pax trains are. This will allow the freights to run around the pax trains w/o having to move the pax. In fact if it's your favorite train you can leave it parked there. That way you can enjoy looking at it while running your freight trains.
OK major SNAFU the gentleman that stated my staging crept into my duckunder is right. I happily connect the the track viewing my staging level and main level then I turned off my main level from view and happily contuinued making my staging yard.....well after looking closer at my level overlaps.....it does go into my duckunder area.......GRRRRR so now that I have the main level to a design that I am happy with (with much appreciated assistance) I am going to have to address my fupa design error. Off the top of my head this could be done by basicly flipping the top and bottom of the plan.....I dunno...we will see. sigh
I am also thinking I might be able to flip the whole plan 180 degrees with some slight modifications....
Matt that'll be even better as your duck under could be alot narrower & nothing to get in the way of the staging yard. Go for it!
